RG3 and Gruden?

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

While I said they all deserve to go, the practical fact of the matter is they can't all go. We're into Gruden for four more guaranteed years so we have no choice but to ride him out a bit longer and hope for the best.

And it's not like we have better options at QB so might as well hang onto RG3 and see what happens. But Allen, Haslett and others should be gone.

What you mean we? Snyder is a billionaire. He can pay a man who is no longer coaching his team if he wants to do that. As a fan, I have no interest in Snyder keeping around a man who can't do the job and I couldn't care less how much money he spends to find the right coach.

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

What you mean we? Snyder is a billionaire. He can pay a man who is no longer coaching his team if he wants to do that. As a fan, I have no interest in Snyder keeping around a man who can't do the job and I couldn't care less how much money he spends to find the right coach.

Exactly. The guaranteed money to Gruden is a pittance compared to the lost revenue from keeping a bad coach who nobody wants to watch, buy apparel and whatnot.

It's a no brainer, if there's a better HC available you walk Gruden to the door.

[Rotten1980]

I'm not even sure Gruden could handle being OC on most teams. He was really "coddled" in Cincy having a ton of talent to work with and an elite defense that constantly put the offense in good position.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

I'm not even sure Gruden could handle being OC on most teams. He was really "coddled" in Cincy having a ton of talent to work with and an elite defense that constantly put the offense in good position.

Lol. Having talent to work with means an o-coordinator is "coddled?" If that's the case, I wish our o-coordinators were coddled every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

What you mean we? Snyder is a billionaire. He can pay a man who is no longer coaching his team if he wants to do that. As a fan, I have no interest in Snyder keeping around a man who can't do the job and I couldn't care less how much money he spends to find the right coach.

Just because he can doesn't mean he will. If it were your business would you toss away $20M for nothing?

It's just ignorant of reality.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Exactly. The guaranteed money to Gruden is a pittance compared to the lost revenue from keeping a bad coach who nobody wants to watch, buy apparel and whatnot.

It's a no brainer, if there's a better HC available you walk Gruden to the door.

You're going to have to show me your analysis on that one because I call bullshit.

We have sucked something awful for years, yet we continue to sell out games.

We had tickets on RESALE for $4 this past weekend, but that's resale. That doesn't hurt Snyder's pocket. A sparse stadium hurts concessions, I'll give you that.

But come next year we'll all be excited again for Redskins football and they'll sell out again, no matter whether Gruden is coach.

[Schneed10]

This is easily the worst situation I can ever remember any NFL team being in.

A coach with 4 more guaranteed years who by all accounts is terrible, a QB who loves drama more than football, 3 high picks not on the roster because of a trade, and terrible front office support.

Doesn't mean they can't make moves, but reality says we won't get what we want.

[mredskins]

Gee look who is number three on the list. Danny is just so upset he can't win; he uses 100 dollar bills to wipe the tears away.
Washington Redskins - In Photos: NFL Team Values 2014 - Forbes

[calia]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Just because he can doesn't mean he will. If it were your business would you toss away $20M for nothing?

It's just ignorant of reality.

I am not so sure. He might part with $20M if he thought that the damages to the franchise associated with a coach that cannot get us moving in the direction of winning soon might cost more than that. Not to mention that it might be worth $20M (to him -- he has that luxury) not to have the media shit-storm that the last 7 weeks have wrought.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by calia

I am not so sure. He might part with $20M if he thought that the damages to the franchise associated with a coach that cannot get us moving in the direction of winning soon might cost more than that. Not to mention that it might be worth $20M (to him -- he has that luxury) not to have the media shit-storm that the last 7 weeks have wrought.

Dude, he tried to get Shanahan to resign last year so that he didn't have to pay his final year.

We kept on several coaches as holdovers from that staff so that Dan wouldn't have to pay dead salaries.

Show me a time when Dan Snyder has ever been willing to pay lots of money to a coach to go away?

You're not living in reality.

[calia]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Dude, he tried to get Shanahan to resign last year so that he didn't have to pay his final year.

We kept on several coaches as holdovers from that staff so that Dan wouldn't have to pay dead salaries.

Show me a time when Dan Snyder has ever been willing to pay lots of money to a coach to go away?

You're not living in reality.

And did Shanahan resign, or did he eat that $? I also don't think the holdover coaches were driven by $ (although I concede it may have been a factor) -- I think Gruden's alliegance and relationship (and Allen's) to Haslett was more of a factor.

I confess I do not recall whether Snyder had to pay $ to make Zorn, Schottenheimer or Spurrier go away (although I suspect he may have).

With all due respect, I am not sure you're looking at this the right way. The $ Snyder spent on Gruden was gone the minute Gruden signed the deal. The question is what Snyder will have to pay beyond that to get what he wants -- a coach that can get this team winning. If he thinks that by spending $ to do so he can get that, he will have to evalute the cost relative to how important it is to him. Stated differently, I doubt he will keep a coach that he believes will not climb above 3 wins just to save $20M -- if doing better than 3 wins is worth $20M to him (and I suspect it is). That's particularly true when keeping Gruden (and not paying the incremental cost of another HC) could actually cost Snyder a lot more revenue in an increasingly disenfranchised fan base that isn't buying tickets, jerseys, etc.

[mredskins]

It is not only the $20M when talking about Gruden, it is also who do you replace him with in 2015?

[MTK]

Hard to imagine Gruden getting the axe so quick. Even Zorn got two years.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by calia

And did Shanahan resign, or did he eat that $? I also don't think the holdover coaches were driven by $ (although I concede it may have been a factor) -- I think Gruden's alliegance and relationship (and Allen's) to Haslett was more of a factor.

I confess I do not recall whether Snyder had to pay $ to make Zorn, Schottenheimer or Spurrier go away (although I suspect he may have).

With all due respect, I am not sure you're looking at this the right way. The $ Snyder spent on Gruden was gone the minute Gruden signed the deal. The question is what Snyder will have to pay beyond that to get what he wants -- a coach that can get this team winning. If he thinks that by spending $ to do so he can get that, he will have to evalute the cost relative to how important it is to him. Stated differently, I doubt he will keep a coach that he believes will not climb above 3 wins just to save $20M -- if doing better than 3 wins is worth $20M to him (and I suspect it is). That's particularly true when keeping Gruden (and not paying the incremental cost of another HC) could actually cost Snyder a lot more revenue in an increasingly disenfranchised fan base that isn't buying tickets, jerseys, etc.

I completely understand the principles of sunk cost. But I don't think you're appropriately factoring in risk.

Here's the thing, as much as I think Jay Gruden stinks, I can't be entirely certain he can't turn the program around. And I can't be entirely certain a new coach could.

So let's go ahead and view the $20M as a sunk cost. To hire a new coach would be another what, $25M commitment? Would he pay $45M for what he might perceive to be a better shot at improvement? Or would he ride it out and pay $20M to someone who could still improve?

Again, it's not what we think he should do (it's easy to spend other people's money). It's a matter of what he will think he should do.

Secondly, I think you overstate the threat to Snyder's revenue stream. We still haven't failed to sell out a home game, despite the sad state of affairs.

[SmootSmack]

I've totally lost track of this thread, but Snyder has paid millions over the years for coaches not to be here