Defensive Failures: Scheme or Players?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Redskin

Ok we lack CB's so we should drop the safties back to help
But then we lack LB's and DL's so we need to keep the safties in to stop the run. Quite the pickle you would have to scheme from that.

But it's not a unique pickle in the NFL. Coaches change and adapt with the talent they have. Plain and simple.

Listen, even if we get a stud in the first round, what are the chances of the kid getting on the field at the start of the season. Slim to none, it goes against Gregg Williams' style.

Keep an eye on the defensive rookies of the year and ask yourself if this guy were a Redskin, would he have started and had that same impact within our system?

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by dmek25

isnt it amazing how different the defense looks when springs is in the lineup?

Springs brings so much to the D it's unreal! When healthy, he's the best CB we've got!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Springs brings so much to the D it's unreal! When healthy, he's the best CB we've got!

I think Springs is good for 8-10 games a year. His days of playing 14-16 games are over. So that's another problem.

[Crat92]

Intelligence is the ability to make adjustments. GW had to change the D because of the players. PERIOD. The injury bug hit starting with Pierson P, Springs etc.. Those players were key to the D's overall success. Other players then had to do things they weren't used to doing(i.e. Kenny Wright starting). When we had the players, the scheme was great. We just gotta get more players.

[LMsexyAO]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Intelligence is the ability to make adjustments. GW had to change the D because of the players. PERIOD. The injury bug hit starting with Pierson P, Springs etc.. Those players were key to the D's overall success. Other players then had to do things they weren't used to doing(i.e. Kenny Wright starting). When we had the players, the scheme was great. We just gotta get more players.

Right. But like 12th man was saying, shouldn't a reasonable coach be able to adapt to injuries? That's a huge part of the game and no NFL team can expect to go 16 games with no major injuries. So you've got to think, GW couldn't come up with a halfway decent defense with one or two players out? I think that reflects poor depth and stubborness to adjust to the players' strengths.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by LMsexyAO

Right. But like 12th man was saying, shouldn't a reasonable coach be able to adapt to injuries? That's a huge part of the game and no NFL team can expect to go 16 games with no major injuries. So you've got to think, GW couldn't come up with a halfway decent defense with one or two players out? I think that reflects poor depth and stubborness to adjust to the players' strengths.

Agree 100%! Can't pour syrup on sh*t and call it pancakes!

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by LMsexyAO

Right. But like 12th man was saying, shouldn't a reasonable coach be able to adapt to injuries? That's a huge part of the game and no NFL team can expect to go 16 games with no major injuries. So you've got to think, GW couldn't come up with a halfway decent defense with one or two players out? I think that reflects poor depth and stubborness to adjust to the players' strengths.

The Giants played half the season without their best defensive player (Strahan) yet they're still going to the playoffs. Blame the Gibbs/Snyder philosophy for paying above top dollar for every FA signing while trading away draft picks and letting cheaper depth players like Walt Harris walk. Harris would've been much better than Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph after Springs went down. I NEVER thought I'd appreciate Harris, but he had a hell of a year in SF.

[skins052bgr8]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

If Springs makes that much of difference from the corner position, then I think it's definitely the scheme. Again, I think the coordinator has to compensate for weaknesses and flaws. He's responsible for saying okay, we lack this that and the other. Let's make some adjustments here so that we don't get exploited to the tune of 200 yrds on the ground.

If it was that easy the NFL would be full of mediocre players and coaches compensating for the weakness. It has got to be the majority on the players bad angles, can't get off blocks, dropped ints, very little pass rush. You can compensate for the run and put all your people in the box, then they beat us deep like we have seen over and over. You can't compensate for that many weaknesses with your best corner out for the year, he may be old but when healthy he can play and allow you to put him one and one and guess what no help from the safety over the top which helps the run with the safety in the box.

I can agree coaches are at fault for letting good talent walk.

[riggoraider]

It has to be "some" of the players I will not say all of them because we do have some pretty good defensive players but the awful ones we have can bring down a whole defensive unit just like a couple of better ones (like when Springs plays we improve on "D") can bring the unit up.

Williams has proven himself to be a very good defensive mind and I think that given the right couple of player that he can turn our defense back around

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

It has to be "some" of the players I will not say all of them because we do have some pretty good defensive players but the awful ones we have can bring down a whole defensive unit just like a couple of better ones (like when Springs plays we improve on "D") can bring the unit up.

Williams has proven himself to be a very good defensive mind and I think that given the right couple of player that he can turn our defense back around

Look, we can point at Williams past success all we want, but that doesn't buy you crap in the NFL. I'm not saying dump the guy, but you are only as good as your last season, and to some extent you survive on reputation.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skins052bgr8

If it was that easy the NFL would be full of mediocre players and coaches compensating for the weakness. It has got to be the majority on the players bad angles, can't get off blocks, dropped ints, very little pass rush. You can compensate for the run and put all your people in the box, then they beat us deep like we have seen over and over. You can't compensate for that many weaknesses with your best corner out for the year, he may be old but when healthy he can play and allow you to put him one and one and guess what no help from the safety over the top which helps the run with the safety in the box.

I can agree coaches are at fault for letting good talent walk.

Of course some of it players, I'm not being overly foolish about my argument. But just as sure as were pecking away at our keyboards right now, next season we could lose a Marcus Washington or a Carlos Rogers or whomever God forbid.

I distinctly remember when we lost C.Griff for a string of games last year, and opposing offenses exploited the hell out of that weakness. Everyone was like, man when Griffin is in the game, it's a different defense. We pretty much agreed, here on Warpath, how important it was to have him in the lineup. Guess what, Springs went down this year, and it's the same song....different player.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Look, we can point at Williams past success all we want, but that doesn't buy you crap in the NFL. I'm not saying dump the guy, but you are only as good as your last season, and to some extent you survive on reputation.

OH LAWD NO!!! what exactly did Greg Williams do wrong?

Williams should not be judged this way

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

The Giants played half the season without their best defensive player (Strahan) yet they're still going to the playoffs. Blame the Gibbs/Snyder philosophy for paying above top dollar for every FA signing while trading away draft picks and letting cheaper depth players like Walt Harris walk. Harris would've been much better than Kenny Wright and Mike Rumph after Springs went down. I NEVER thought I'd appreciate Harris, but he had a hell of a year in SF.

I agree. I get so tired of every saying Springs getting hurt is the root of all problems. A smart organazation would have saw that Springs was not going to play a full season. He's not a durable player to begin with. They should have been prepared for that. Just another screw up by the worst FO in the NFL.

[44_Riggins_44]

it was everything that did us in. defense, offense, players, coaches, FRONT OFFICE, waisting time to switch to JC, waisting time with spending a kazillion dollars on arch WHEN HE DOESNT EVEN FIT THIS DEFENSIVE SCHEME, i mean cmon we have taylor back theyre to crack skulls. also not sticking to the game plan and clock management was a problem. i mean cmon i dont care if were down 239823490823049-0 coming into the 3rd quarter RUN THE DAMN BALL. i think the offseason workouts were a problem, all the hype was a problem. everything sucked. to tell you the truth, and i hate to say it but i am relieved to see this season end. dont get me wrong i still bleed burgandy and gold and i love gibbs and wat hes trying to do here, but we need to make adjustments. the one bright spot i saw in this season was jc and the special teams. we have some work to do.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree. I get so tired of every saying Springs getting hurt is the root of all problems. A smart organazation would have saw that Springs was not going to play a full season. He's not a durable player to begin with. They should have been prepared for that. Just another screw up by the worst FO in the NFL.

The notion that Springs isn't durable is a myth, as has been pointed out on this board before. Yes he's missed a few games here and there throughout his career. But other than this year I believe there's only been one other time in his career that he missed significant time (when he missed 8 games). All that said though, they did "prepare" for that by signing Kenny Wright and trading for Mike Rumph (and later when Prioleau went down and Arch choked they brought in Fox and Vincent). Apart from Rumph those weren't horrible moves by the front office.

Furthermore, the Giants nearly crashed and burned without Strahan this year. It's not like they cruised into the playoffs without him. They backed their way in by the slimmest of margins.