Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Isn't Mike an offensive coach?? Hmm

Yeah Thats why i said / DC - its Shannys call who takes over the D post Haslett rite?


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[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Zorn.

And that worked just swell.

Again, extremes (skins, lol) vs nuance. Zorn vs Sean Peyton.

Sorry Matty, this place is better than Extreme Skins but I couldn't resist

[Bishop Hammer]

No. The Skins put up one horrid game and folks want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

blowout losses happen. Considering this is the first one (with a rookie QB, mind you) its nothing to freak out about. If the Texans can ger blown out, with perhaps the most prolific offense in the leauge, then I don't think you can begrudge our team for one.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Aren't you on the side of the arguement that gives examples of the Giants, packers and the Patriots as reasons why defense is not necessarily all that important? Maybe not you who quoted it, but many people have given those examples as why we could still win. Even though we are not, and now its due to not getting any help from the Defense. Correct me if I am wrong, but this defense is almost ALL Shanahans men, over 3 years worth of his men, and its now last in the league. I doubt that even changing the coordinator is going to be of much help, so again, since defense is now very necessary to win and a very important cog (excuse), we are again 3 years away from fixing THIS problem.

Point I am making is that if Shanahan was to come in here and team build, he has absolutely neglected the other side of the ball. We are now again 3 years away from fielding a team decent enough to be considered a contender due to the absolutely horrid play of our team on that side of the ball. With this logic, very often applied during these types of "Shanahan, Haslett, To fire or not to Fire" discussions, once we fix one side, the other side will be old, ineffective and abysmal, and we are right back to square one. Being just a couple years away. Its a football team, and if a coach is worth his weight in whatever, he gets his players to perform or he doesn't. They all have the same cap, the same draft picks, and the same rules. Its the coaches that are different, and this coach can not keep up, and we will NEVER be a serious contender for anything as long as Mike Shanahan is here at the helm. Again, just my opinion, but I think its fairly valid to say a coach who hasn't done squat in the league as far as playoffs and sustained success is concerned other than the times he has a uber elite QB behind center just cannot get it done without that Uber talent. He has proven it time and time again, we were just so desperate to get rid of zorn that we all figured he would be an upgrade. Sure Seems like he isn't. I haven't seen much of anything different other than our youth and QB, still losing, but now with the worst defense in the league and a patchwork OLine that is overachieving due to a ultra mobile QB. And this whole thing about the mood and pride at Redskins park has changed in the last 3 years, ok.

I'll take winning over a positive attitude anyday, thanks. Until that happy sunshiny feeling translates into sustained success on the field, call me a non believer in anything Shanahan is selling.

Not sure I ever said that. Difference with those D's is they can either bring pressure or create a lot of turnovers.

We're mostly on the same page, I don't think it will take 3 years to fix the D though.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

No. The Skins put up one horrid game and folks want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

blowout losses happen. Considering this is the first one (with a rookie QB, mind you) its nothing to freak out about. If the Texans can ger blown out, with perhaps the most prolific offense in the leauge, then I don't think you can begrudge our team for one.

Thiiiiis. And I mean we didn't even get blown out really. We lost by... what, 2 scores? It could've been worse. We could've been the week 7 Ravens.

[Richmond Redskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Not sure I ever said that. Difference with those D's is they can either bring pressure or create a lot of turnovers.

We're mostly on the same page, I don't think it will take 3 years to fix the D though.

I think we have at least one more year of a struggling defense. Basically we have RAK and Carriker back, but both off of big injuries. We need time, money and talent and we are short on all three. I think unless we have some players really step up we are a little hamstrung this year and next.

We have some picks next draft and hopefully can find a few starters in that mix.

[RedskinRat]

Are people not seeing the difference between being in every game and being on the wrong end of an Eagles-like loss (whichever season it was they jumped us for the most ugly, lopsided score I've seen)?

I see progress with this squad and if we'd had our starting Safeties, Carriker and Rak, who knows where we'd be now.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Are people not seeing the difference between being in every game and being on the wrong end of an Eagles-like loss (whichever season it was they jumped us for the most ugly, lopsided score I've seen)?

I see progress with this squad and if we'd had our starting Safeties, Carriker and Rak, who knows where we'd be now.

We were in a ton of games last year and the year before.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by The Goat

We were in a ton of games last year and the year before.

Out of 8 games, there has only been one we werent in. That didnt happen all that much the last few years.

Im still a believer that most teams went ultra conservative with us the last few years (or like the Giants last year, just assumed the win was guaranteed as long as they showed up and gave a half-ass effort). Most teams knew that as long as they werent giving up pick 6's to our defense, they would most likely win. We had no offense, so there was no reason to put in game plans to try and score 30 points against us and risk our defense scoring points. Its not that teams didnt want to score like crazy on us, they just knew that there was no reason to risk a play when you could just punt knowing that the ball would come back with no points scored by the Skins. Get a TD or two, then laugh as Rex/Beck/McNabb/Cambell ect. tried to get us back into the game.

I think we are getting teams best efforts and best game plans this year, and are staying right with them even with the terrible defense that we have.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Out of 8 games, there has only been one we werent in. That didnt happen all that much the last few years.

Im still a believer that most teams went ultra conservative with us the last few years (or like the Giants last year, just assumed the win was guaranteed as long as they showed up and gave a half-ass effort). Most teams knew that as long as they werent giving up pick 6's to our defense, they would most likely win. We had no offense, so there was no reason to put in game plans to try and score 30 points against us and risk our defense scoring points. Its not that teams didnt want to score like crazy on us, they just knew that there was no reason to risk a play when you could just punt knowing that the ball would come back with no points scored by the Skins. Get a TD or two, then laugh as Rex/Beck/McNabb/Cambell ect. tried to get us back into the game.

I think we are getting teams best efforts and best game plans this year, and are staying right with them even with the terrible defense that we have.

Well said, and I agree with this.

[skinsfan69]

Bottom line is MS has to take the blame for the defense. He came in and changed it. It's been worse since he's taken over. And even with Carriker and Orakpo we were still at best an average defense. Changing to the 3-4 has not been a good move and the numbers back it up. RG3 buys him another year.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Bottom line is MS has to take the blame for the defense. He came in and changed it. It's been worse since he's taken over. And even with Carriker and Orakpo we were still at best an average defense. Changing to the 3-4 has not been a good move and the numbers back it up. RG3 buys him another year.

Just curious what your take on the train of thought that offenses didn't run it up on us because they believed we couldn't come back - thus artificially raising our defensive stats.

[Sonny9TD]

No but I wouldn't mind seeing Haslett replaced. Not at all.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Bottom line is MS has to take the blame for the defense. He came in and changed it. It's been worse since he's taken over. And even with Carriker and Orakpo we were still at best an average defense. Changing to the 3-4 has not been a good move and the numbers back it up. RG3 buys him another year.

Mike Shanahan will live out his 5 year contract. He has Bruce Allen to back him up. Shanahan told Snyder from the beginning that this was a rebuilding program. He's in year 3 now and he and Bruce Allen are slowly but surely cleaning up the gigantic mess left behind by Vinny Cerratto. Switching to the 3-4 defense truly wasn't a bad move. The Redskins have given up tons of yardage this year, but have still managed to attain turnovers and turn them into points thanks in part to the defense. The Redskins were ranked 10th in defense after 11 games last season and 13th once the season was over. Granted, the defense did take 1,000 steps back this year. Getting rid of Atogwe and Landry hurt the Redskins more than anyone thought it would have. And let's not mention Brandon Meriweather's perpetual injury and Tanard Jackson's 1 year suspension.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Just curious what your take on the train of thought that offenses didn't run it up on us because they believed we couldn't come back - thus artificially raising our defensive stats.

I think that's somewhat over analyzing it.