Santana vs. Randy

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

skins fan, you said that santana moss is not a pure #1 receiver, that's bogus

correct. and i stand by that. how can u say santana is a pure #1 when in 6 years he has broken 1000+ yards twice?? sorry but he 's not in the upper class of wr's in the league. i would put him in the 2nd tier of wr's. and that's not a bad thing and i'm not knocking him cause i love the guy and i'm glad he's a redskin. i hope he takes off and has an 05 type of year.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

correct. and i stand by that. how can u say santana is a pure #1 when in 6 years he has broken 1000+ yards twice?? sorry but he 's not in the upper class of wr's in the league. i would put him in the 2nd tier of wr's. and that's not a bad thing and i'm not knocking him cause i love the guy and i'm glad he's a redskin. i hope he takes off and has an 05 type of year.

Well in 7 seasons Reggie Wayne has had only three 1000+ seasons. I would consider him a number one.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Well in 7 seasons Reggie Wayne has had only three 1000+ seasons. I would consider him a number one.

Reggie Wayne plays on a team where he has been the 2nd option his whole career. If you put him on another team where he is the #1 target is he still the same player? Perhaps. But maybe not.

Again I'm not dogging on Santana Moss. I'M GLAD HE IS A REDSKIN. I just think Randy Moss is better. The guy has scored over 100 TD's. It's not even an agument if you ask me. And now that he has Tom Brady throwing to him I would bet that you will see the old Randy Moss. He still has plenty of gas left in the tank.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Reggie Wayne plays on a team where he has been the 2nd option his whole career. If you put him on another team where he is the #1 target is he still the same player? Perhaps. But maybe not.

Again I'm not dogging on Santana Moss. I'M GLAD HE IS A REDSKIN. I just think Randy Moss is better. The guy has scored over 100 TD's. It's not even an agument if you ask me. And now that he has Tom Brady throwing to him I would bet that you will see the old Randy Moss. He still has plenty of gas left in the tank.

You sort of hit my point about Wayne, yards alone don't really determine whether or not you're truly a number one. Other factors should be considered outside of stats alone. For instance, what do you do with opportunities given? In that regard, if you line TO and Reggie Wayne on the same squad, who's the number 1 guy? TO who drops more balls than anyone in the NFL, or Reggie Wayne who is efficient with the number of touches he gets?

And I'll state emphatically, again, Randy Moss is probably a first ballot HOF, but as of 5/3/2007, I take Sanantana Moss all day long over R. Moss.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You sort of hit my point about Wayne, yards alone don't really determine whether or not you're truly a number one. Other factors should be considered outside of stats alone. For instance, what do you do with opportunities given? In that regard, if you line TO and Reggie Wayne on the same squad, who's the number 1 guy? TO who drops more balls than anyone in the NFL, or Reggie Wayne who is efficient with the number of touches he gets?

And I'll state emphatically, again, Randy Moss is probably a first ballot HOF, but as of 5/3/2007, I take Sanantana Moss all day long over R. Moss.

Really?? Do you know the pressure Randy Moss puts on a defense when he is in the red zone? The dude is 6'5 and can jump out of the gym and runs a 4.3. He just creates all kinds of match-up problems for any corner. When he is used correctly, like he will be in NE, and when he is motivated, and that's a BIG IF, the guy is almost unstopable. You know damn well Bill B. is not going to stand for the Randy Moss that played Oak. You can bet your life on that. Plus NE has solid vets to keep his ass in line. I think RM was also down because of the situation he was in. He knew Oak sucked and he's not the type of guy to have in the locker room when things are down. But I can't imagine how good he is going to be with Tom Brady throwing him the rock. This is the first time Brady has a true stud at WR.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Really?? Do you know the pressure Randy Moss puts on a defense when he is in the red zone? The dude is 6'5 and can jump out of the gym and runs a 4.3. He just creates all kinds of match-up problems for any corner. When he is used correctly, like he will be in NE, and when he is motivated, and that's a BIG IF, the guy is almost unstopable. You know damn well Bill B. is not going to stand for the Randy Moss that played Oak. You can bet your life on that. Plus NE has solid vets to keep his ass in line. I think RM was also down because of the situation he was in. He knew Oak sucked and he's not the type of guy to have in the locker room when things are down. But I can't imagine how good he is going to be with Tom Brady throwing him the rock. This is the first time Brady has a true stud at WR.

First off, I watched Randy Moss sit at the podium when the Oakland Raiders introduced him following the trade, and out of his own mouth he was so happy to be a Raider and get a 'new start.' So, if Randy has been down it's certainly of his own doing, not the Raiders. He knew the situation he was getting into from day one. Oakland brought him there to help turn it around, I'll bet now that he's gone they'll actually make some progress. Secondly, as fast as Randy Moss is, I highly doubt he can still rip off at 4.3, not guaranteeing it, but I doubt at this point he still runs a 4.3/40.

Listen, I don't want to turn this into some Randy Moss hate thread, because that's not the stance I'm really trying to take here. Facts are facts. Moss will probably end up Canton some day, he's had a great career. And who knows, he could have a great year up there in N.E.
I'm guessing, barring any type of injury, he'll get around 1,100 yds.

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Reggie Wayne plays on a team where he has been the 2nd option his whole career. If you put him on another team where he is the #1 target is he still the same player? Perhaps. But maybe not.

Again I'm not dogging on Santana Moss. I'M GLAD HE IS A REDSKIN. I just think Randy Moss is better. The guy has scored over 100 TD's. It's not even an agument if you ask me. And now that he has Tom Brady throwing to him I would bet that you will see the old Randy Moss. He still has plenty of gas left in the tank.

Dude, you're totally dogging on Santana when you say that he's not even a pure #1 receiver, how is that not dogging on the man? Did you think he was a pure #1 receiver in 2005?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

Dude, you're totally dogging on Santana when you say that he's not even a pure #1 receiver, how is that not dogging on the man?

C'mon dude. I love the guy. I said he was a very very good #2 in my opinion. Dogging him would be saying he's sucks or is overrated.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

C'mon dude. I love the guy. I said he was a very very good #2 in my opinion. Dogging him would be saying he's sucks or is overrated.

I think it's clear that the boards opinion of a No. 1 receiver and your opinion are whats causing this disagreement.

To me and many others, a No. 1 WR simply means a guy who can be relied on at any point in the game and can do his job well.

To you, a No. 1 WR is one of the rarest and most elite players in the game. Guys like Boldin, Fitzgerald, Roy Willams, and Andre Johnson didn't make your list.

It's just semantics. I would argue that Santana is possibly the second most valuable receiver in the NFL (S. Smith)...but I would be undervaluing some veteran skills in Wayne, Harrison, Chad Johnson, and Holt.

Our perceptions of what a No. 1 receiver needs to be is the only argument here.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think it's clear that the boards opinion of a No. 1 receiver and your opinion are whats causing this disagreement.

To me and many others, a No. 1 WR simply means a guy who can be relied on at any point in the game and can do his job well.

To you, a No. 1 WR is one of the rarest and most elite players in the game. Guys like Boldin, Fitzgerald, Roy Willams, and Andre Johnson didn't make your list.

It's just semantics. I would argue that Santana is possibly the second most valuable receiver in the NFL (S. Smith)...but I would be undervaluing some veteran skills in Wayne, Harrison, Chad Johnson, and Holt.

Our perceptions of what a No. 1 receiver needs to be is the only argument here.

Moss is our #1. No question about that. But compared to the elite #1's I don't think he is in that class of wr. The guys you mentioned are right on the edge.