Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I actually think it's sad that you don't seem to have much pity for those that are less fortunate, and you assume that people that are homeless are homeless because of personal choice, they're dumbasses, and don't give a shit.

Sad.

You might be surprised to find out how many homeless people are there by personal choice or because of personal choices. I would think that drugs and alcohol are responsible for about 75% of homeless cases. The remainder being largely mentally ill (you can't force people to stay in mental hospitals since the 1970's, which is oddly when homelessness emerged). There are very few people in this country who are sane, willing to work and who don't have a place to live. It's very rare. Think about it. You would have to lose your job, have no family, have no friends, have no church, and on and on and on.

You can feel pity for someone and understand that it's their own fault at the same time. The two are not really related.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

You might be surprised to find out how many homeless people are there by personal choice or because of personal choices. I would think that drugs and alcohol are responsible for about 75% of homeless cases. The remainder being largely mentally ill (you can't force people to stay in mental hospitals since the 1970's, which is oddly when homelessness emerged). There are very few people in this country who are sane, willing to work and who don't have a place to live. It's very rare. Think about it. You would have to lose your job, have no family, have no friends, have no church, and on and on and on.

You can feel pity for someone and understand that it's their own fault at the same time. The two are not really related.

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

I would say that most people are willing to give a helping hand to people willing to help themself. I have belong to several organizations which help in the comunity and I see so many people who are willing to receive help but are totaly unwilling to help themself. The group I belong to now has a very,very tough time finding people who are not just looking for a hand out rather than a helping hand.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I would say that most people are willing to give a helping hand to people willing to help themself. I have belong to several organizations which help in the comunity and I see so many people who are willing to receive help but are totaly unwilling to help themself. The group I belong to now has a very,very tough time finding people who are not just looking for a hand out rather than a helping hand.

Absolutely agree with that!

originally quoted by matty:

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

I'm going to break this down cause you mentioned a lot of different scenarios.
1- "the sick". Depends on how they got sick. Did they get sick because they were having unprotected sex and didn't care? If so, then tough crap. If they got sick from just living life, then yes, I care.
2- "the Elderly." You probably wouldn't expect this from me cause you guys don't understand where I'm coming from, but you can't help but get old, and I firmly believe that the money we waste on the unwed mothers plopping out babies should go to the elderly that really can't help themselves. I donate, and offer my time to the local nursing home...shock eh? Because they actually can't help themselves when they are that old.
3- "The mentally ill". See above.
4- "The homeless". I can not think of a scenario where a homeless person didn't do that to themselves by making piss poor decisions, then getting a "poor me" attitude. They are there because of them, no one else. Self responsibility people.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

4- "The homeless". I can not think of a scenario where a homeless person didn't do that to themselves by making piss poor decisions, then getting a "poor me" attitude. They are there because of them, no one else. Self responsibility people.

The only scenario about "the homeless" that I can think of is the veitnam vets that got messed up in the head over in veitnam and then came home and our goverment pretty much turned its back on them...

But other wise I agree, most homeless people either had piss poor upbringing or made piss poor choices in life...

I remember my only trip to New York city, there were people getting on the subway's begging for money. I would not give them nothing and this one homeless guy started to harrass me about it. He was saying stuff like "What? You think your better than me? Why can't you give me any money? You're no better than me..." I didn't give him any money but that was pretty damn arrogant for him or any homeless person just to expect people to give them money...

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

The only scenario about "the homeless" that I can think of is the veitnam vets that got messed up in the head over in veitnam and then came home and our goverment pretty much turned its back on them...

Well, while I would like to initially agree, I have a couple comments to ponder. 1- Are they mentally ill now? If so, they need to go into another catagory, and like I already said, I agree with helping them. 2- Why is it the soilders from WW1 and WW2 didn't have the same issues, yet they saw some pretty graphic images? WHat made 1 generation be able to take it (or surpress it) and the other generation got all messed up?

But other wise I agree, most homeless people either had piss poor upbringing or made piss poor choices in life...

Thanks man...I feel like I'm on an island out here.

I remember my only trip to New York city, there were people getting on the subway's begging for money. I would not give them nothing and this one homeless guy started to harrass me about it. He was saying stuff like "What? You think your better than me? Why can't you give me any money? You're no better than me..." I didn't give him any money but that was pretty damn arrogant for him or any homeless person just to expect people to give them money...

You can thank all those idiots that give to them regularly. It's like if you feed a stray dog on your front porch, he will continue to come back, and if you continue to feed him, he will expect it.

I have a story that just happened about 1 month ago. My wife was coming out of wal mart, and a homeless person was on the corner with a sign that said "will work for food". She rolled down the window and said "my lawn needs to be mowed if your interested", (I am very allergic to something in the grass here) he actually said F.U. to her. When I got word of this, I was livid, I drove down there and saw that he had a dog too. I went into wal mart and bought a small bag of dog food. I went up to the homeless person and gave it to him. He asked "what the hell is this"? I said "it's food for your dog, and since you're not willing to work, you can share it with him too." He muttered something, and I said, "maybe next time you should actually do what your sign says and mow a lawn." I drove away to him giving me the finger. But at least the dog won't go hungry.

[SmootSmack]

Michael Moore, Dr. Gupta square off over 'Sicko' - CNN.com

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, while I would like to initially agree, I have a couple comments to ponder. 1- Are they mentally ill now? If so, they need to go into another catagory, and like I already said, I agree with helping them. 2- Why is it the soilders from WW1 and WW2 didn't have the same issues, yet they saw some pretty graphic images? WHat made 1 generation be able to take it (or surpress it) and the other generation got all messed up?

To answer your second question, I think that WWI and WWII were totally different types of wars compared to the Vietnam "Conflict". When our troops came home from WWI and WWII they were reguarded as HERO's. And as you know, in WWII we were attacked so that war meant alittle more to the people and troops than the Vietnam war/"conflict." When our troops came home from Vietnam they were spit on, protested against, and labled "baby killers." To me that is night and day when you are talking about the attidude that the troops had to come home too.

Also, alot of the Vietnam troops got "boned" by our goverment when they tried to get "war time" benifits. They were told that they were not in a war, but that they were in a "conflict." I am sure that had to weigh heavy on some of the men's minds. On top of all of this, the day after the US leaves Vietnam, North Vietnam takes over anyhow. So the whole thing was done for nothing, atleast I am sure that is what some of the men felt like, they didn't win.

In conclusion, WWI and WWII troops came home to parade, a socity with its arms opened, and were called HERO's. When Vietnam vets came home they came home to a COUNTRY that turned its back on them, people protesting against them, and being called baby killers. There are some that over came that adversity but that is a lot to over come for the most part. Think about it for a minute, think what it must have ben like to be 18, a US soldier, and be stuck in Vietnam. On top of that if you got to go to a Vietnam town, you never knew truely who the enemy was. It could be the guy next to you at the bar, it could be a little boy on the corner shinning shoes, or even woman walking down the street. I am sure that the men of WWI and WWII saw horrific imagies, but atleat they knew who the enemy was and why they were fighting, not so much can be said for our Vietnam troops...

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, while I would like to initially agree, I have a couple comments to ponder. 1- Are they mentally ill now? If so, they need to go into another catagory, and like I already said, I agree with helping them. 2- Why is it the soilders from WW1 and WW2 didn't have the same issues, yet they saw some pretty graphic images? WHat made 1 generation be able to take it (or surpress it) and the other generation got all messed up?

To add to what 8588 said. You also have to think of the era. Durin the time periods of WWI and WWII it was not "manly to talk about stuff like that" Not that they didnt have the same issues, but just like a boy thinks that it is not ok to cry, it wasnt ok to address mental issues. Add to that the fact that the military started experimenting all sorts of different drugs on US soldiers during Vietnam, Desert Storm and Enduring @ Iraqi Freedom. Also from a medical standpoint pshchology was not as practiced then as it is now.

To sum it up, all war Vets experienced it in every war. Light just wasnt always shed on the matter.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I have a story that just happened about 1 month ago. My wife was coming out of wal mart, and a homeless person was on the corner with a sign that said "will work for food". She rolled down the window and said "my lawn needs to be mowed if your interested", (I am very allergic to something in the grass here) he actually said F.U. to her. When I got word of this, I was livid, I drove down there and saw that he had a dog too. I went into wal mart and bought a small bag of dog food. I went up to the homeless person and gave it to him. He asked "what the hell is this"? I said "it's food for your dog, and since you're not willing to work, you can share it with him too." He muttered something, and I said, "maybe next time you should actually do what your sign says and mow a lawn." I drove away to him giving me the finger. But at least the dog won't go hungry.

Damn... that's a dick-move.

I'm not saying what he did was right, but to go to that length to retaliate is pretty childish if you ask me.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Regardless of how or why it happens, do they still not deserve a helping hand? I guess the prevailing opinion would be they don't, considering how we treat our sick, elderly, mentally ill, and homeless in this country.

The point is that they have already gotten what they deserve. The question is, should we help them even though they don't deserve it? I'm inclined to answer yes, BTW.

[724Skinsfan]

Is there a post on this thread that summarizes "Sicko"? What reforms can be made without giving it over to government control?