Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

jsarno · 07-08-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

How is making a profitable film not free-enterprise? That's why I never understood the complaint that Michael Moore makes money off his films. If free enterprise is the most perfect system and a film maker is succesful within that system, what's the problem?

But what you're missing is we're all bitching about the gas companies. Moore has every right to make those films, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have the right, but when he makes those statements, he should back them up with his participation. That's like someone standing up and saying to give money to save the planet, but doesn't do it himself. In other words, hypocracy.

djnemo65 · 07-08-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

But what you're missing is we're all bitching about the gas companies. Moore has every right to make those films, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have the right, but when he makes those statements, he should back them up with his participation. That's like someone standing up and saying to give money to save the planet, but doesn't do it himself. In other words, hypocracy.

I'm not following you here....

jsarno · 07-08-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I'm not following you here....

How did I lose you?
Basically, we bitch just as much at moore as you do at the oil companies...the difference is we bitch about the oil companies and you won't bitch at Moore.
also, for some reason you keep associating the oil companies profit with the government when it's OUR fault for requiring such a large amount, and more and more each year.

djnemo65 · 07-08-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

How did I lose you?
Basically, we bitch just as much at moore as you do at the oil companies...the difference is we bitch about the oil companies and you won't bitch at Moore.
also, for some reason you keep associating the oil companies profit with the government when it's OUR fault for requiring such a large amount, and more and more each year.

First of all, when did I ever mention the oil companies? My point, quite simple I thought, was that it doesn't make sense to criticize Moore for making a profit. If you wish to launch a substantive criticism against his oeuvre feel free to do so - there are legitimate criticisms to be made - but leave his money out of it.

The debate about oil companies is one I am going to respectfully decline to be drawn into at this point, given that my lunch is about to be served.

jsarno · 07-08-2007, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djnemo65

First of all, when did I ever mention the oil companies? My point, quite simple I thought, was that it doesn't make sense to criticize Moore for making a profit. If you wish to launch a substantive criticism against his oeuvre feel free to do so - there are legitimate criticisms to be made - but leave his money out of it.

The debate about oil companies is one I am going to respectfully decline to be drawn into at this point, given that my lunch is about to be served.

Well, it came from this quote of yours:

Quote:

i love it how republicans spew the hatred towards Moore for making movies strictly for the money. but yet the oil companies gouge us everyday, and its their right to maintain as big of a profit as they seem.

Moore is a piece of shit hypocrit! If he did it with honest intentions, then most of us wouldn't have a problem with him.

SmootSmack · 07-08-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, it came from this quote of yours:

Moore is a piece of shit hypocrit! If he did it with honest intentions, then most of us wouldn't have a problem with him.

I agree with you on Moore (for the most part), but get your facts straight with the quotes.

You quoted dmek25, not djnemo

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/325850-post118.html

jsarno · 07-08-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I agree with you on Moore (for the most part), but get your facts straight with the quotes.

You quoted dmek25, not djnemo

http://www.redskinswarpath.com/325850-post118.html

OOOOOOH, my bad. Sorry guys.

dmek25 · 07-09-2007, 04:22 AM

that was me

and it just reeks when a Texas oil man, that resides in the white house, governs over the highest oil prices in this nations history. i just say when i see a spade, i call it a spade. the last time i checked, Michael Moore is still in the private sect

dmek25 · 07-09-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

Moore is a piece of shit hypocrit! If he did it with honest intentions, then most of us wouldn't have a problem with him.

and how the hell do you know what his intentions are? just because someone makes money when doing something, doesnt mean they arent trying to do the right thing

MTK · 07-09-2007, 09:29 AM

alright so back to the topic, does anyone else feel that it's a huge conflict of interest when you mix health care with private industry?

firstdown · 07-09-2007, 10:06 AM

For the people who think that the goverment should run health care please name one program that the goverment has that cost have not sky rocketed. Do we need some reform? Yes, but the federal goverment will only add to the problem. They have allready caused the price of health ins. to sky rocket by all the mandates they have required the heath ins. co. to provide under their policies. Drug addiction is one of the mandates and why should I be forced to buy this coverage if I do not use drugs?

jsarno · 07-09-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

and how the hell do you know what his intentions are? just because someone makes money when doing something, doesnt mean they arent trying to do the right thing

Bacause he has done nothing to help the situation, nor would he donate his money to help the situation. He has already shown this to be true with other issues.

jsarno · 07-09-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

alright so back to the topic, does anyone else feel that it's a huge conflict of interest when you mix health care with private industry?

How is it a conflict of interest when health care already is a private industry? I guess I don't see health care as a right...you are asking someone that is highly trained to help you. Just like you ask a mechanic to fix your car.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 03:55 PM

i feel moore does a good job opening discussion and i feel discussion is one of the most important things. I don't care which way things go. As long as the american people want it. That is what a democracy is all about. I don't care for moore. He does a great job but moore the person means nothing to me.

While yes, most people have health insurance, and many of those that don't choose not to have it,doesn't mean everyone is comfortable. I would like to look into the issue a lot more. Now some of the things in the movie are extremely disturbing. Some say that if your plan doesn't cover a treatment you shouldn't have your claim accepted if you apply for it. However, moore shows people having their claims denied for 'lying' on their application for insurance. Now some lies, i am sure are legitamely people lying, however moore shows people being denied for minor cases that they did not report. Things that have no bearing on their future health.

Moreover, what is important is the intent behind that. It seems like insurance companies don't look into the paper work UNTIL there is a health related issue. They have no problem taking your money until its their time to pay up. Also it is messed up that those hired to decide whether a claim is accepted get bonuses for denying you treatment. This is ludacris. This is people's health. It doesn't make sense to have a profit making industry behind this. Its not like the police and fire depts. are deciding who to help and not help. This is a basic function of life(actually it is life) and it should be protected by a governing body.

Now I felt these were compelling issues that were brought up. The evidence of people testifying in court and the testomony shown by those in the industry seem to support it. Now we all know that Moore techniques have been called into question many times so i'll want to discuss and research this a lot more before i vote.

However, i know universal healthcare would benefit me personally. My parents don't make much money. Their jobs don't give them benefits. I have healthcare but not dental. I am telling you, i've had this f...ing chipped tooth in the back of my mouth that hurts like a mother f...er. I wouldn't tell my parents because they'd insist that i have it checked but without dental i really don't want to have to pay the money it would cost. I haven't seen a dentist in 5-6 years.

They feel that healthcare is so important that they would never cancel it. However it is draining 1200 a month from us and that is a HUGE amount of money for us to spend per month. We get a lot of help from our family and our extended family is EXTREMELY close to us. My cousins are no different than my sister. I am to my uncle as his son is to him, i honestly believe that. 1200 a month would be fantastic when it comes to my college costs. I didn't get as much financial aid as i would have hoped for this year. That has made me even think about many options like sitting out a year and saving up. However, my extended family is helping me with loans and I am taking out a few on the side. I will owe quite a bit when i get out but that is ok. I say all this just to say, while most people have healthcare, many cannot really afford it. I would love 1200 more a month. Not that all of it would go to college costs but it would help out so much. I feel that healthcare is a basic utility that should be provided to all people and it shouldn't be an expense that they weigh decisions over.

BigSKINBauer · 07-09-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Drug addiction is one of the mandates and why should I be forced to buy this coverage if I do not use drugs?

I think it is a basic thing about society, people help people. If someone is introuble you can't turn your backs on them. It is completely understandable that people don't want to pay for other people's problems but who knows what can happen tomorrow? You could be the one in need of help. I've just always grown up under the understanding that if you can, you help those in need.

However, not everyone is going to agree on that and that is ok. That is what makes voting great. I hope that people's opinions on this issue are really expressed in the next election. That is why we should be happy that moore made this movie because it encourages people to make up their minds. Now it is true that many people will watch his movie and believe what he says regardless but i would hope that the american people study an issue before they vote for those who are for and against it.

07-09-2007, 04:22 AM	#128
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO that was me and it just reeks when a Texas oil man, that resides in the white house, governs over the highest oil prices in this nations history. i just say when i see a spade, i call it a spade. the last time i checked, Michael Moore is still in the private sect __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

07-09-2007, 09:29 AM	#130
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,038	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO alright so back to the topic, does anyone else feel that it's a huge conflict of interest when you mix health care with private industry? __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

07-09-2007, 10:06 AM	#131
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 62 Posts: 15,817	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO For the people who think that the goverment should run health care please name one program that the goverment has that cost have not sky rocketed. Do we need some reform? Yes, but the federal goverment will only add to the problem. They have allready caused the price of health ins. to sky rocket by all the mandates they have required the heath ins. co. to provide under their policies. Drug addiction is one of the mandates and why should I be forced to buy this coverage if I do not use drugs?

07-09-2007, 03:55 PM	#134
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Age: 38 Posts: 5,688	Re: Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO i feel moore does a good job opening discussion and i feel discussion is one of the most important things. I don't care which way things go. As long as the american people want it. That is what a democracy is all about. I don't care for moore. He does a great job but moore the person means nothing to me. While yes, most people have health insurance, and many of those that don't choose not to have it,doesn't mean everyone is comfortable. I would like to look into the issue a lot more. Now some of the things in the movie are extremely disturbing. Some say that if your plan doesn't cover a treatment you shouldn't have your claim accepted if you apply for it. However, moore shows people having their claims denied for 'lying' on their application for insurance. Now some lies, i am sure are legitamely people lying, however moore shows people being denied for minor cases that they did not report. Things that have no bearing on their future health. Moreover, what is important is the intent behind that. It seems like insurance companies don't look into the paper work UNTIL there is a health related issue. They have no problem taking your money until its their time to pay up. Also it is messed up that those hired to decide whether a claim is accepted get bonuses for denying you treatment. This is ludacris. This is people's health. It doesn't make sense to have a profit making industry behind this. Its not like the police and fire depts. are deciding who to help and not help. This is a basic function of life(actually it is life) and it should be protected by a governing body. Now I felt these were compelling issues that were brought up. The evidence of people testifying in court and the testomony shown by those in the industry seem to support it. Now we all know that Moore techniques have been called into question many times so i'll want to discuss and research this a lot more before i vote. However, i know universal healthcare would benefit me personally. My parents don't make much money. Their jobs don't give them benefits. I have healthcare but not dental. I am telling you, i've had this f...ing chipped tooth in the back of my mouth that hurts like a mother f...er. I wouldn't tell my parents because they'd insist that i have it checked but without dental i really don't want to have to pay the money it would cost. I haven't seen a dentist in 5-6 years. They feel that healthcare is so important that they would never cancel it. However it is draining 1200 a month from us and that is a HUGE amount of money for us to spend per month. We get a lot of help from our family and our extended family is EXTREMELY close to us. My cousins are no different than my sister. I am to my uncle as his son is to him, i honestly believe that. 1200 a month would be fantastic when it comes to my college costs. I didn't get as much financial aid as i would have hoped for this year. That has made me even think about many options like sitting out a year and saving up. However, my extended family is helping me with loans and I am taking out a few on the side. I will owe quite a bit when i get out but that is ok. I say all this just to say, while most people have healthcare, many cannot really afford it. I would love 1200 more a month. Not that all of it would go to college costs but it would help out so much. I feel that healthcare is a basic utility that should be provided to all people and it shouldn't be an expense that they weigh decisions over.

Michael Moore's Latest Target: Your HMO

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