russia/ georgia

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

a) seriously overestimate the value of Poland

Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?

The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

The fact that we have a treaty is inconsequential with respect to what Russia might do. If you feel you're justified you won't care will you? I mean that's how the world has operated since the dawn of time....they are ignored or broken.

I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I am seriously not understanding you here. Are you saying we should just ignore our treaty obligations as we see fit?

No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.

I understand that but I don't get exactly what you think WE should be doing. All I am hearing is "Bush sucks". I guess I am just confused by your message here. How should we be handling this?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I understand that but I don't get exactly what you think WE should be doing. All I am hearing is "Bush sucks". I guess I am just confused by your message here. How should we be handling this?

Obviously I advocate diplomacy or as some would label appeasement. We should at least be mindful of our delusion of grandeur and don't pretend we have the upper hand or the will and the means to do anything if Russia attacks Poland.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Obviously I advocate diplomacy or as some would label appeasement. We should at least be mindful of our delusion of grandeur and don't pretend we have the upper hand or the will and the means to do anything if Russia attacks Poland.

Jimmy Carter advocated diplomacy too. That didn't work out too well.

I don't think we should confront Russia either, let them have Poland...again (Yalta,FDR, Alger Hiss). It's too much of a risk to honor our committment to NATO anyway. Russia's expansion and reclaiming of old Soviet bloc territory isn't our problem. When they work with Chavez to base missles in Venezula, that's no big deal either....it would be Bush's fault anyway because he's such an idiot and has just F'd everything in the world up.

P.S. You are ridiculously underestimating the capabilities of the USAF and overestimating Russia's military. It's one thing to roll into Georgia(the stupid, idiotic, Bush Admin told Georgia not to start this), its entirely another to stop Stealth fighter/bombers from completely destroying your military infrastructure. Putin's no idiot, he'll have his surrogates talk, but he won't cross the "line in the sand" of attacking a NATO country.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by saden1

No, I'm say Russia doesn't give a shit about your treaty with Poland. As they see it, it's a matter of national interest to make sure they are not encircled.

I agree with you Saden. And this is exactly why I think our President should be smart enough to speak English!!! This fucking idiot that we got running things now is known for always making the wrong decisions at the right times!

I mean, if he was smart enough do you actually think he would have invaded a country without a real plan? Or do you think he would have been more accurate AND get this, ON THE SAME PAGE with the Iraqi government about withdrawing American troops? What about catching Bin Laden back in 2001? We did have him cornered there as you might recall. But Bush, in all of his wisdom, decides to let the local people catch him...........those people probably played poker with Bin Laden in his cave from time to time.

And now there is Russia. Whats next Bush? Its your move. Just please don't fuck this thing up!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Miller101

I agree with you Saden. And this is exactly why I think our President should be smart enough to speak English!!! This fucking idiot that we got running things now is known for always making the wrong decisions at the right times!

I mean, if he was smart enough do you actually think he would have invaded a country without a real plan? Or do you think he would have been more accurate AND get this, ON THE SAME PAGE with the Iraqi government about withdrawing American troops? What about catching Bin Laden back in 2001? We did have him cornered there as you might recall. But Bush, in all of his wisdom, decides to let the local people catch him...........those people probably played poker with Bin Laden in his cave from time to time.

And now there is Russia. Whats next Bush? Its your move. Just please don't fuck this thing up!

So I guess your a Bush fan!

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Miller101

And now there is Russia. Whats next Bush? Its your move. Just please don't fuck this thing up!

Instead of saying "f Bush," articulate what you think Bush did wrong. What exactly did he do that was so wrong with respect to RUSSIA? Sometimes I swear, if Bush said he liked babies, some people would say that babies are as evil as Hitler.

As for this whole crisis between Russia, Poland and the US, it's way overblown. Poland is very important to Russia, but no one should seriously think that Russia is going to start a war with NATO over it.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Instead of saying "f Bush," articulate what you think Bush did wrong. What exactly did he do that was so wrong with respect to RUSSIA? Sometimes I swear, if Bush said he liked babies, some people would say that babies are as evil as Hitler.

As for this whole crisis between Russia, Poland and the US, it's way overblown. Poland is very important to Russia, but no one should seriously think that Russia is going to start a war with NATO over it.

F Bush!?!?!? I was pleading with Bush not to screw up again! Thats all! Sorry I didn't make that clearer...............and whose to say that Russia is going to start a war with NATO? How do you know that Bush won't press a launch key by mistake?

Look, I know you might be a fan of Bush. You might be a Republican and that is cool. You also might be an independent. And thats cool too. It really is. But, you have to understand that all I've seen that guy do is screw up. And now that Russia is back I'm a little worried. And I just hope Bush doesn't screw this one up. And from the sounds of it things are cooling down a little bit and thats good. Maybe we can get out of this okay.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Not arguing with other things you've said but you have now ignored the fact that we are OBLIGATED to defend Poland. By treaty. Rice wasn't just making that up. Maybe Poland has no intrinsic value to us but it represents a great deal in terms of keeping a organized and peaceful eastern block. Once Russia takes hold of Poland what happens then? Think they just stop? I'd be pretty worried about their next steps. And then the steps after those. This needs to be nipped pretty quick. We're using rhetoric right now because what else do we have?

You know, just when you think Bush is done. Just when you think he CAN'T screw up anymore. Just when you think there ACTUALLY is light at the end of the tunnel....................The cold war is back. Geez! How in the heck can you screw up so much in so little time? It baffles me! It really does.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Miller101

You know, just when you think Bush is done. Just when you think he CAN'T screw up anymore. Just when you think there ACTUALLY is light at the end of the tunnel....................The cold war is back. Geez! How in the heck can you screw up so much in so little time? It baffles me! It really does.

You're dismissed, we already have a Dmek.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

You're dismissed, we already have a Dmek.

That's just sad, isn't it?