For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

TDs thrown is included in the QB rating. I agree stats aren't everything, but they give you a pretty clear indication of trends. Interpretation of stats is important too. If JC had a 77.6 QB rating and was sacked only 1.31 time per game then it's a pretty logical conclusion to say if his QB rating is now 85.7 and he's being sacked 2.43 times per game he's gotten better.

As far as TDs this year he's thrown 13, the teams/QBs mentioned in the first post have thrown 15/15/14 behind better OLs with experienced OCs.

No one is calling anyone stupid, but to ignore facts and statisitics and call those that have facts and statistics to back them up and support Zorn/Campbell "excuse makers"....well, it is what it is.

Ok, let me just say first of all... the whole point of the thread is my response to all of the excuses for Zorn & Campbell... I said in another post that I wholeheartedly believe that teams win with their lines (O & D).

But... Let me say in response to this post...

If Campbell is getting sacked 2.43 times per game, many times because his first option isn't open and he pumps but doesn't throw, then sits and pats the ball without automically knowing the best available option left or throwing it away (or pulling down & running like that super running QB Fitzpatrick!! ha!), that is SOMEONE'S fault right? QB? QB coach? Offensive Passing Scheme with not enough viable options & blockers??

That leaves Campbell & Zorn...

Again... let me say... I am not saying we need to fire either, I never even came close to saying it... I am just saying that it is time to use the "inexperienced" excuse for both... they HAVE to improve IMMENSELY for this team not to become the Lions/Bengals/Rams of the next couple of years... these other teams (Falcons/Dolphins/Ravens) have done so in months, not years

Oh, also, for those saying Zorn didn't fumble the ball on the goal line ... he called SELLERS number TWICE in a row!! Portis hasn't scored a touchdown in what, 6-7 weeks? Maybe, if he would have used our fullback to plow an opening for our once MVP candidate RB...

And... those saying our D is much to blame for yesterday, sure, ok, they were worse than usual, but... we went three and out for the first quarter and a half of the game against one of the league's worst defenses!!! Just don't forget how bad the offense was to start the game (and every game over the past 6)

[Hail to the Redskins]

Just want to say, as well, because I started the thread and alot had been misunderstood along the way...

My point is, for this season, the MAIN/MAJORITY reason we will not be in the playoff or playing for a Super Bowl is because of our offense/passing game!

* First of all, name one new starter from last years team... Chris Horton? Jason Taylor? only one's I can think of... so we returned the majority of a 9-7 playoff team.

* Defense is NOT TO BLAME!! The ONLY stat that matters is POINTS ALLOWED... or am I wrong?
* Our defense has not given up more than 24 points in a game all season (Pittsburgh is only other team to say that) - 12 teams are AVERAGING allowing more than 24 per game!! And one is a playoff team (Arizona)
* OUR defense averages giving up 19.0 per game - 7th in the NFL!!
* Our defense is good enough to make the playoffs!

* We have the 7th ranked running offense... I'd say good enough for a playoff team.

I am just saying that yes, these two guys (mostly Zorn) are the MAIN reason we are not making the playoffs this season. Now, do I agree that maybe with this cast of players needed an established coach/OC? Heck yes and the ultimate blame should go to Cerratto & Snyder, because we weren't ready to completely rebuild yet and could very well be what the Falcons/Ravens/Dolphins are this year.... but... that just reinforces that Zorn (and Campbell under him) has been the main reason we are where we are

I'm not saying that Campbell should go ... as far as Zorn? It depends... if you want to tear everything down and rebuild completely under his new philosophies, ok, let's go there...

but if you think we have a majority of playoff talent and just need some GOOD offseason moves to really go deep in playoffs, we may need the type of change the Falcons/Ravens/ Dolphins got which is experienced OC and HC...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

If Campbell is getting sacked 2.43 times per game, many times because his first option isn't open and he pumps but doesn't throw, then sits and pats the ball without automically knowing the best available option left or throwing it away (or pulling down & running like that super running QB Fitzpatrick!! ha!), that is SOMEONE'S fault right? QB? QB coach? Offensive Passing Scheme with not enough viable options & blockers??

If that was the case, you'd be correct, but over the last few weeks he's been getting sacked because the OL is making incorrect blitz pick-up calls, is missing assignments, or getting physically beaten. JC has actually saved a good number of sacks by getting out of the pocket or getting the ball out quickly.

Again... let me say... I am not saying we need to fire either, I never even came close to saying it... I am just saying that it is time to use the "inexperienced" excuse for both... they HAVE to improve IMMENSELY for this team not to become the Lions/Bengals/Rams of the next couple of years... these other teams (Falcons/Dolphins/Ravens) have done so in months, not years

I agree both Zorn and Campbell need to improve, but they are not the main culprits for our current stretch of poor performances. I challenge you to name me a productive offense with a poor OL....don't try to research and find one, because it doesn't exist.

Oh, also, for those saying Zorn didn't fumble the ball on the goal line ... he called SELLERS number TWICE in a row!! Portis hasn't scored a touchdown in what, 6-7 weeks? Maybe, if he would have used our fullback to plow an opening for our once MVP candidate RB...

I agree with you here, bad play selection by Zorn.

And... those saying our D is much to blame for yesterday, sure, ok, they were worse than usual, but... we went three and out for the first quarter and a half of the game against one of the league's worst defenses!!! Just don't forget how bad the offense was to start the game (and every game over the past 6)

our defense surrendered 20 points, against a Bungles team that is averaging 12.4 point per game, I believe it was 11.x prior to Sunday. They definitely are responsible for this loss just as much as the offense.

[Hail to the Redskins]

good post... but I disagree with the sacks assessment. Many sacks lately have been from the other team having more rushers than we have protectors in my opinion... but that's fine

Also... the defense gave up the TD early, but the Bungleds DID start the drive on the 35... not a good excuse, and the did performed below par, but... anyway, our offense should be able to score more than 20 against the Cincinnati Bengals too...

[GusFrerotte]

To lay 100% of the blame on JC and even Zorn is not fair, but in the real world of pro football if a team isn't clicking on offense the guy(s) that get the axe are the HC and/or the QB. Zorn's WCO needs to be gutted altogether or at the very least heavily modified somehow in the offseason if he doesn't get canned. JC gets another year in my book to show us if he is a real talent or just an average QB. AFter '09 he will have had the same time as Frerotte had to show us what he can do, and if he has another subpar year simply don't resign him. To be honest, I expect that to be what will precisely happen. Although he has shown some improvement, he still is slow on the development curve for the time he has been here.