McNabb, Warner, and the Hall of Fame

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Aikman's numbers don't tell the whole story. He could have been a gunslinger in an offense that wasn't so run heavy. And at the end of the day 3 rings gets him in easily.

The numbers also suggest he would have been a really, really bad gunslinger in an offense that wasn't so run heavy. Possibly an NFL bust, but more likely what we think of Jay Cutler today.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

The numbers also suggest he would have been a really, really bad gunslinger in an offense that wasn't so run heavy. Possibly an NFL bust, but more likely what we think of Jay Cutler today.

I saw enough of Aikman to tell me he was a damn good QB and much better than his numbers indicated. A bust? I really doubt that.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I saw enough of Aikman to tell me he was a damn good QB and much better than his numbers indicated. A bust? I really doubt that.

Nobody should be suprised of a HOF Aikman. One of the best IMO

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I saw enough of Aikman to tell me he was a damn good QB and much better than his numbers indicated. A bust? I really doubt that.

Fair enough, but his numbers were really, really, really bad in the years where the Cowboys weren't the greatest 21 player roster ever assembled.

I mentioned this above, but his career completion percentage is 61.5, which is very, very good for his era. But, that's obviously a misleading figure because he never, ever once got within 2 points of that on either side.

Without the greatest Cowboys line ever, and having Irvin in his prime, and Smith in his, Aikman is something like a 56% passer. It's totally not fair to Aikman to take away his prime years and grade him, obviously, but it's clear on a lesser team that not only is he not in the hall of fame, but he likely fails to make the pro bowl.

I don't actually know how bad the Cowboys were from 1997-1999 or from 1988-1989. I suspect they weren't good at all, but whether they were horrible, or just not playoff caliber, it probably would make a big difference in how we (I) perceive Aikman today.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Fair enough, but his numbers were really, really, really bad in the years where the Cowboys weren't the greatest 21 player roster ever assembled.

I mentioned this above, but his career completion percentage is 61.5, which is very, very good for his era. But, that's obviously a misleading figure because he never, ever once got within 2 points of that on either side.

Without the greatest Cowboys line ever, and having Irvin in his prime, and Smith in his, Aikman is something like a 56% passer. It's totally not fair to Aikman to take away his prime years and grade him, obviously, but it's clear on a lesser team that not only is he not in the hall of fame, but he likely fails to make the pro bowl.

I don't actually know how bad the Cowboys were from 1997-1999 or from 1988-1989. I suspect they weren't good at all, but whether they were horrible, or just not playoff caliber, it probably would make a big difference in how we (I) perceive Aikman today.

Well if we took away the Hogs the Skins would probably have never won a SB so that point is pretty usless.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well if we took away the Hogs the Skins would probably have never won a SB so that point is pretty usless.

Well, we also never put Joe Theismann/Doug Williams/Mark Rypien into the hall of fame.

Which is sort of the whole point.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, we also never put Joe Theismann/Doug Williams/Mark Rypien into the hall of fame.

Which is sort of the whole point.

I think we are talking about two different things and I'm not going to go back and read so. Have A Nice Night I'm Going Home.

[Jake2008]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I saw enough of Aikman to tell me he was a damn good QB and much better than his numbers indicated. A bust? I really doubt that.

Aikman's first couple of years were pathetic and it wasn't until they drafted Smith and had probably the best offensive line ever in the NFL and Irvin that he put up just decent numbers. His best year over his carreer in most any category doesn't even break the top 100 all time. And his last 4 years when the team started breaking up were very average also. Take him off the Cowboys and put him in Detroit and my guess is most people wouldn't even know who he is today.

Of all teams we should know that you can make a QB look good with a great line and team around him. We have done it a few times.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Jake2008

Aikman's first couple of years were pathetic and it wasn't until they drafted Smith and had probably the best offensive line ever in the NFL and Irvin that he put up just decent numbers. His best year over his carreer in most any category doesn't even break the top 100 all time. And his last 4 years when the team started breaking up were very average also. Take him off the Cowboys and put him in Detroit and my guess is most people wouldn't even know who he is today.

Of all teams we should know that you can make a QB look good with a great line and team around him. We have done it a few times.

Meh, you can play that game with just about anyone. What would Montana and Young have been without Rice and those talented 49ers teams?

You can't pick and choose to take away this or that. His resume is what it is, a Hall of Fame one. There's no debating it at this point because he's already in.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Meh, you can play that game with just about anyone. What would Montana and Young have been without Rice and those talented 49ers teams?

You can't pick and choose to take away this or that. His resume is what it is, a Hall of Fame one. There's no debating it at this point because he's already in.

I would debate it........call me a hater, but he's overated!

He had a wide reciever that could almost always push off and get open.

He also had a really good offensive line. If he had wanted too he could have put the football on the ground and counted to ten before throwing a pass!

Plus, he's the reason why we got that infamous tuck rule now! You know from that game back in the '92 season...........I think it was in '92. When Irvin failed to push off off Darrell Green so Aikman was forced to 'tuck' the football; then one of our guys knocks it out of his hands. Emmitt picked up it then fumbled it too. One of our guys jumped on it and we won......................you remember what I'm talking about right? Just for that dumb rule alone he shouldn't have ever gotten in!

Last but not least........he can't even take a hit! I know Arrington leveled him, but still! HOFer's are supposed to be able to get up from those!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Miller101

I would debate it........call me a hater, but he's overated!

He had a wide reciever that could almost always push off and get open.

He also had a really good offensive line. If he had wanted too he could have put the football on the ground and counted to ten before throwing a pass!

Plus, he's the reason why we got that infamous tuck rule now! You know from that game back in the '92 season...........I think it was in '92. When Irvin failed to push off off Darrell Green so Aikman was forced to 'tuck' the football; then one of our guys knocks it out of his hands. Emmitt picked up it then fumbled it too. One of our guys jumped on it and we won......................you remember what I'm talking about right? Just for that dumb rule alone he shouldn't have ever gotten in!

Last but not least........he can't even take a hit! I know Arrington leveled him, but still! HOFer's are supposed to be able to get up from those!

You're kidding right?

Aikman was one of the toughest QBs to play the game. He routinely took some wicked shots and always got back up. His first few years before that OL was built up he got rocked on a weekly basis and had countless concussions over the course of his career.

Debate all you want whether he's a Hall of Famer or not, but one thing that shouldn't be debated is the guy's toughness. He was as tough as they come. By the time Arrington took him out he was a light breeze away from retiring.