HOF Candidates

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.

Mark McGwire and these guys broke the law. Baseball doesn't have to specifically state every rule. I never understood why the players union made the players seem like they were immune from the law, like a foreign country. It was like everybody knew people were using steroids, but nobody did anything and they always used the excuse the players union is too strong, like they didn't have to follow the laws of the US. If Mark McGwire and all these guys didn't do anything wrong then how come they all lied about it. I think all these guys should not get into the HOF. They'll have to live with the fact that they cheated and they didn't get in for the rest of their life. The most important thing is that kids will learn that it's not acceptable and it's not going to get them anywhere and these guys really regret what they did.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by an23dy

Mark McGwire and these guys broke the law. Baseball doesn't have to specifically state every rule. I never understood why the players union made the players seem like they were immune from the law, like a foreign country. It was like everybody knew people were using steroids, but nobody did anything and they always used the excuse the players union is too strong, like they didn't have to follow the laws of the US. If Mark McGwire and all these guys didn't do anything wrong then how come they all lied about it. I think all these guys should not get into the HOF. They'll have to live with the fact that they cheated and they didn't get in for the rest of their life. The most important thing is that kids will learn that it's not acceptable and it's not going to get them anywhere and these guys really regret what they did.

Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.

In all seriousness though a) baseball would be a bit hypocritical not letting these guys in because they know that, especially after the 1994, two things helped bring baseball back-Ripken and the long ball. The league office can't get on its high horse all it wants now but it knew what was happening with Bonds, McGwire, Sosa back then but why stop it when those 500 foot blasts were putting fans in the seats and more money in the owners' pockets? and b) what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.

Keep in mind, we always blame "baseball", when in fact it's cause there is a complete cancer in MLB, called the Players Association. If they didn't have certain things they would walk. Don't forget, they finally saw the error of their ways and allowed for testing in 05. One of the agreements was to not allow tests before 05 to NEVER be made public. The PA is the main reason for the PED era. The owners didn't help by not demanding it no matter what, but they didn't want the best players in the world sitting out, that would have hurt their pocket book, so they accepted demands. The PA needs to be abolished. It doesn't help baseball at all, it's once gave baseball a black eye, now it gave baseball cancer.

what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?

This brings up an interesting point...maybe all the HOF's should put ground rules in place that you won't be accepted if you are not a decent member of society. Of course that could cause legal ramifications, but maybe if the HOF's took a stronger stance, we wouldn't need to debate these things.

[an23dy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.

In all seriousness though a) baseball would be a bit hypocritical not letting these guys in because they know that, especially after the 1994, two things helped bring baseball back-Ripken and the long ball. The league office can't get on its high horse all it wants now but it knew what was happening with Bonds, McGwire, Sosa back then but why stop it when those 500 foot blasts were putting fans in the seats and more money in the owners' pockets? and b) what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?

Personally, I don't think Jenkins should be in, unless he worked to be a better person after. I think Michael Irvin is a good example of this, because he made mistakes, but became a better person after and became a role model. I think the difference between Jenkins and the steroid guys is you can directly point to the fact that the steroids helped make the stats that these guys put up, but the cocaine is different. You never know if they would have put up HOF numbers if they didn't take steroids.