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Old 07-09-2009, 01:15 PM   #1
GTripp0012
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Re: HOF Candidates

Honest question: should LaDainian Tomlinson be a hall of famer? How about Champ Bailey?

That, to me, is the big question of our era. Obviously, Manning and Brady are easy, along with Brett Favre, Derrick Brooks, Marvin Harrison, Tony Gonzalez and Michael Strahan. But there's other players who should be hall of famers who you simply couldn't put in if you limit the honor to only the best players ever.

Do you draw the line at those 5 time pro bowlers? Or do they get in too?
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:03 PM   #2
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Honest question: should LaDainian Tomlinson be a hall of famer? How about Champ Bailey?

That, to me, is the big question of our era. Obviously, Manning and Brady are easy, along with Brett Favre, Derrick Brooks, Marvin Harrison, Tony Gonzalez and Michael Strahan. But there's other players who should be hall of famers who you simply couldn't put in if you limit the honor to only the best players ever.

Do you draw the line at those 5 time pro bowlers? Or do they get in too?
I'd say yes on LT but no on Champ. What has he done? He's a reputation player his whole career but never did anything to significantly impact any team he's been on. What's his signature season or his signature play? He's been good but I don't put him in the Rod Woodson/Darrell Green/Deion category.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:36 PM   #3
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Re: HOF Candidates

I still think Jake Scott should have gone in years ago. Along with the all pro awards we still remember SB VII where he was the MVP.
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Old 07-10-2009, 12:53 AM   #4
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Re: HOF Candidates

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I'd say yes on LT but no on Champ. What has he done? He's a reputation player his whole career but never did anything to significantly impact any team he's been on. What's his signature season or his signature play? He's been good but I don't put him in the Rod Woodson/Darrell Green/Deion category.
Well, that's just the thing: Champ's case is similar to LdT's, in that they were the premier player at their position for many, many years. However, neither was a trancendental player who oozed greatness. There have been better than LdT, and there will be better in the future. Like Champ, he has no specific claim to fame or great team-related successes to push him in.

It all comes down to where you draw the line. By Irish's definition, neither Tomlinson nor Bailey makes the Hall. I would put both of them in, because I don't think the Hall should exclude great players regardless of the circumstances.

The only argument I would use against Hall canidacy is that player 'x' was not a "great" player. Like Jim Plunkett. He was not a great player, though he has an argument for the hall based on four years in the early 80's.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #5
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Well, that's just the thing: Champ's case is similar to LdT's, in that they were the premier player at their position for many, many years. However, neither was a trancendental player who oozed greatness. There have been better than LdT, and there will be better in the future. Like Champ, he has no specific claim to fame or great team-related successes to push him in.

It all comes down to where you draw the line. By Irish's definition, neither Tomlinson nor Bailey makes the Hall. I would put both of them in, because I don't think the Hall should exclude great players regardless of the circumstances.

The only argument I would use against Hall canidacy is that player 'x' was not a "great" player. Like Jim Plunkett. He was not a great player, though he has an argument for the hall based on four years in the early 80's.
Wow man, I don't know about that in regards to Tomlinson. He's only had one year in his 8 year career where he rushed for less than 1200 yards, never scored less than 10 TD in a season, has the rushing TD record year with 28, never less than 50 receptions in a year. I'd feel pretty comfortable calling him the best RB since Emmitt and definitely the best RB this decade.

I guess I don't know if I'd consider Champ as the premier player at his position for an extended period of time. Early in his career as a Redskin and his first year in Denver-yes, I'd agree but his last season here teams threw at him with no fear. Outside of his first season in Denver teams have gone at him as well. For most of his career you could name a few CB that you would put above or on the same level as him (C. Woodson, Asomugha, Ronde Barber, Clements). He's in the discussion, no doubt, but I just don't know if I consider Champ a Hall of Fame player.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:09 PM   #6
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Re: HOF Candidates

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I guess I don't know if I'd consider Champ as the premier player at his position for an extended period of time. Early in his career as a Redskin and his first year in Denver-yes, I'd agree but his last season here teams threw at him with no fear. Outside of his first season in Denver teams have gone at him as well. For most of his career you could name a few CB that you would put above or on the same level as him (C. Woodson, Asomugha, Ronde Barber, Clements). He's in the discussion, no doubt, but I just don't know if I consider Champ a Hall of Fame player.
I do think that the same argument fits for Tomlinson, in that, you wouldn't have taken him over Portis + the Broncos offensive line, you probably wouldn't have taken him over Shaun Alexander in 2004 and 2005, or Larry Johnson in 2005. What Tomlinson has going for him is that one MVP (which probably should have gone to Peyton, but I digress), and the fact that he's been the common link stretching from Marshall Faulk and Preist Holmes to Brian Westbrook and Adrian Peterson.

Which, I think, is what the argument for Champ relies on. He was good in 2000 when Troy Vincent was the premier CB in the NFL, and he was just as good in 2006, when Nnamdi Asomugha was the premier CB.

Charles Woodson though has an intriguing hall of fame case, because there was a four year period in the middle of his career where nobody really knew his whereabouts (it was the Raiders training room). But he's a 5 time pro bowler these days, and that could reach 6 or 7, in which case, if he strings togethether elite apperances in 2009 and 2010 as a veteran, I'd say yes, Woodson is a hall of famer.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:40 PM   #7
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Re: HOF Candidates

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I do think that the same argument fits for Tomlinson, in that, you wouldn't have taken him over Portis + the Broncos offensive line, you probably wouldn't have taken him over Shaun Alexander in 2004 and 2005, or Larry Johnson in 2005. What Tomlinson has going for him is that one MVP (which probably should have gone to Peyton, but I digress), and the fact that he's been the common link stretching from Marshall Faulk and Preist Holmes to Brian Westbrook and Adrian Peterson.

Which, I think, is what the argument for Champ relies on. He was good in 2000 when Troy Vincent was the premier CB in the NFL, and he was just as good in 2006, when Nnamdi Asomugha was the premier CB.

Charles Woodson though has an intriguing hall of fame case, because there was a four year period in the middle of his career where nobody really knew his whereabouts (it was the Raiders training room). But he's a 5 time pro bowler these days, and that could reach 6 or 7, in which case, if he strings togethether elite apperances in 2009 and 2010 as a veteran, I'd say yes, Woodson is a hall of famer.
Interesting take on LT, I hadn't really considered that at any point during the decade he wasn't far and away the top player at his position. I guess I was looking at it from a standpoint of sustained greatness. I suppose if you use that same scope then Champ does meet that criteria.

That's the problem I have with Kurt Warner, is he a Hall of Famer? He wasn't great for a sustainable period of time but if you look at the past 10 years he's in the conversation with Manning, Brady in terms of accomplishments (4 playoff appearances, 3 Super Bowl) and has put up some serious numbers. I'd put him in the conversation for QB of the decade behind Manning and Brady but ahead of McNabb and Big Ben.
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