Obama Care

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You say that making as much money as possible is fine, but not at the expense of your customers, employees, and shareholders. No kidding. One constitutes fraud [not greed], the other does not. ... That's why the Enron Wiki link does nothing to prove your point [as an example of greed]. Enron engaged in accounting fraud which is against the law [but did not engage in corporate greed].

Saden answered it perfectly, but I'll elaborate a little.

You're basically saying Enron was not greedy, because they were fraudulent. The two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to be greedy and fraudulent at the same time. And, like Saden said, fraud is almost always motivated by greed.

I fail to see how if something is illegal then it cannot be greedy. That makes absolutely no sense. That's why I gave up explaining this to Firstdown. You surprise me, because I never thought you'd use the same ridiculous reasoning.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

That's why philisophically, I don't accept that 'greed' or even 'selfishness' is necessarily a bad thing.

I'm probably misunderstanding you (and the word "philosophically" does not change anything), but if not then I feel very bad for you. I think Saden was right -- you don't understand what greed is.

[Beemnseven]

Gentlemen, if you cannot grasp the point I'm trying to make -- that there is no difference between what you call "corporate greed" and people doing whatever they can to better their position in life, outside of fraud and stealing from other people, then I don't know what else I can say.

Neither of you have answered my question -- what's the difference between an evil, vile, big business doing everything it can to enhance its bottom line and an individual doing everything he or she can to collect and save as much wealth as possible? How is one greed and the other not?

I'll answer, since neither of you will. Both are examples of greed. In one degree or another, greed exists in all of us. So yes, Enron was greedy. But so are you and me, and everyone else striving for a better life, for something more than we already have. But when you cross the line into cheating, stealing or defrauding others then that's something different.

That's why, again, I don't think greed is a bad thing.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Gentlemen, if you cannot grasp the point I'm trying to make -- that there is no difference between what you call "corporate greed" and people doing whatever they can to better their position in life, outside of fraud and stealing from other people, then I don't know what else I can say.

There is no difference between corporate greed and individual greed. However, "people doing whatever they can to better their position in life," is NOT greed. Greed lies in excess. So, if you excessively try to better your life, more than you need or deserve -- and outside the realm of moderation -- than you are greedy.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Neither of you have answered my question -- what's the difference between an evil, vile, big business doing everything it can to enhance its bottom line and an individual doing everything he or she can to collect and save as much wealth as possible? How is one greed and the other not?

Haha. Nice of you to throw in the "evil, vile, big business" remark, because I *must* think *all* businesses are evil and vile? And, of course making money at all is greedy and selfish. LMFAO.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'll answer, since neither of you will. Both are examples of greed. In one degree or another, greed exists in all of us. So yes, Enron was greedy. But so are you and me, and everyone else striving for a better life, for something more than we already have. But when you cross the line into cheating, stealing or defrauding others then that's something different.

That's why, again, I don't think greed is a bad thing.

You're so wrong. Striving for a better life is not greedy. Greed is about excess -- not about wanting. It is possible to want, and not be greedy. When you're hungry and you want something to eat, you must be greedy right? LOL.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

There is no difference between corporate greed and individual greed. However, "people doing whatever they can to better their position in life," is NOT greed. Greed lies in excess. So, if you excessively try to better your life, more than you need or deserve -- and outside the realm of moderation -- than you are greedy.



Haha. Nice of you to throw in the "evil, vile, big business" remark, because I *must* think *all* businesses are evil and vile? And, of course making money at all is greedy and selfish. LMFAO.



You're so wrong. Striving for a better life is not greedy. Greed is about excess -- not about wanting. It is possible to want, and not be greedy. When you're hungry and you want something to eat, you must be greedy right? LOL.

So how do you define excess? And who gets to determine how much you need or deserve?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Saden answered it perfectly, but I'll elaborate a little.

You're basically saying Enron was not greedy, because they were fraudulent. The two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to be greedy and fraudulent at the same time. And, like Saden said, fraud is almost always motivated by greed.

I fail to see how if something is illegal then it cannot be greedy. That makes absolutely no sense. That's why I gave up explaining this to Firstdown. You surprise me, because I never thought you'd use the same ridiculous reasoning.



I'm probably misunderstanding you (and the word "philosophically" does not change anything), but if not then I feel very bad for you. I think Saden was right -- you don't understand what greed is.

GDA, I think you misunderstood my point. I agree that when corporations do stuff like that it is in alot of cases greed. My point was that what they were doing was already against the law. If people are set out to rip people off (get greedy) it does not matter if they work for a corporation or the goverment its going to happen. In either case we have laws against such acts. Madoff was a greedy old man and did not give a crap that he was ripping off people and now he is paying the price. You could also say congress is full of people who are greedy and will take any money from who ever throws it there way and then vote for bills which they really do not support just because of the money.