Obama Care

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Guess what? You're going to be paying for my health insurance! Be careful what you ask for.

I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by saden1

I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.

Yeah, I pay my taxes when I can't get away with not paying them.

You actually think this is about helping people? Liberals are so naive. This is about making the insurance companies richer. Do you actually think that these fools could get the green light to pass legislation that hasn't been approved of? Who do you think wrote that bill?

I make below the average income in VA so that makes me eligible to receive free benefits ala Saden's hard work, sweat, and toil.

I'm on predator mode. If you can't beat em, might as well mother eff em! Your liberal goody-two-shoes, save-the-world mentality makes you easy prey. It's so easy at VCU.

Thanks for the free lunch sucker. Keep them coming!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Yeah, I pay my taxes when I can't get away with not paying them.

You actually think this is about helping people? Liberals are so naive. This is about making the insurance companies richer. Do you actually think that these fools could get the green light to pass legislation that hasn't been approved of? Who do you think wrote that bill?

I make below the average income in VA so that makes me eligible to receive free benefits ala Saden's hard work, sweat, and toil.

I'm on predator mode. If you can't beat em, might as well mother eff em! Your liberal goody-two-shoes, save-the-world mentality makes you easy prey. It's so easy at VCU.

Thanks for the free lunch sucker. Keep them coming!

Nah, the liberal wing of your clan has your back. I'd like to think my tax dollars are going towards helping my family and friends first. Anything left after that is charity.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by saden1

Nah, the liberal wing of your clan has your back. I'd like to think my tax dollars are going towards helping my family and friends first. Anything left after that is charity.

The depression era Democrats of my clan are dead.

Think again sucker. Your buying me a free lunch. Keep em coming!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

The depression era Democrats of my clan are dead.

Think again sucker. Your buying me a free lunch. Keep em coming!

Helping the wicked is a hard pill to swallow but I'm a soldier. Righteousness and helping the meek is in my DNA.

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
-Luke 6:35

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by saden1

Helping the wicked is a hard pill to swallow but I'm a soldier. Righteousness and helping the meek is in my DNA.

Self-righteous is more like it, but I don't look gift horses in the mouth. Quote the Bible to someone who cares what's in it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.

You really don't see how getting better coverage and lower cost cotradict each other? Also if the goverment plan could do this then why not just form a goverment program for the people who think its so great and let others keep what they have without any changes?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You really don't see how getting better coverage and lower cost cotradict each other? Also if the goverment plan could do this then why not just form a goverment program for the people who think its so great and let others keep what they have without any changes?

I don't know,the 47 million uninsured and those under-insured wouldn't think them contradictory. Oh you don't have to participate in the government plan if you don't want to. You do however have to carry insurance. If you don't want your tax dollars going into the pool tough shit...I got other programs I don't want my money going to as well. I know, life isn't fair...suck it up and make a play!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

I don't know,the 47 million uninsured and those under-insured wouldn't think them contradictory. Oh you don't have to participate in the government plan if you don't want to. You do however have to carry insurance. If you don't want your tax dollars going into the pool tough shit...I got other programs I don't want my money going to as well. I know, life isn't fair...suck it up and make a play!

For the 260 Million insured, it is contradictory. For the portion of the 47 Million of young healthy adults who have no health issues (estimates run between 15-25 Million), it is a contradiction.

As I have argued before, by creating a governmental insurer of last resort, you will be creating an entity that will either a) be so cost inefficent as to be a huge money pit; or b) a system that will be just competitve enough to drive out similar private systems and make the more comprehensive plans affordable to only the wealthy.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

For the 260 Million insured, it is contradictory. For the portion of the 47 Million of young healthy adults who have no health issues (estimates run between 15-25 Million), it is a contradiction.

As I have argued before, by creating a governmental insurer of last resort, you will be creating an entity that will either a) be so cost inefficent as to be a huge money pit; or b) a system that will be just competitve enough to drive out similar private systems and make the more comprehensive plans affordable to only the wealthy.

Why is it contradictory? Unless you know something I don't it seems to me that you can keep whatever you have.

• Insurance exchange | The bill would set up a new national health insurance exchange, a marketplace where individuals who do not have employer-sponsored insurance would be able to shop for plans. The exchange would also be open to small businesses, and more would be able to join each year. Companies with 25 or fewer employees would be able to join in 2013, companies with 50 or fewer employees could join in 2014, and companies with fewer than 100 employees could join by 2015.
• Public insurance option | The health insurance exchange would include a government-run public plan. Federal officials would negotiate payment rates with doctors and hospitals that accept the plan.
• Employer mandate | Employers with annual payrolls greater than $500,000 would be required to either provide health insurance for their employees, or contribute 8 percent of their payroll to a federal fund to help subsidize employees who purchase coverage through the exchange. Employers with payrolls less than $500,000 would be exempt from the mandate.
• Individual mandate | Individuals will be required to purchase health insurance, or pay a penalty fee. Some people would be eligible to apply for a hardship waiver.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

I was under the impression that you were tax paying citizen not some poor bum with his hands out. In any case, the way I see it I pool my tax money with others to lower cost and get better coverage. If i end up paying more than average tax payer that's OK.

You're Welcome.

Explain to me how adding approximately 10% of new customers to an already overburdened and flawed system without a plan to expand the ability to provide services will lower costs? Yes, for those w/out coverage, better coverage is a given. For those with coverage, even a poor plan, explain to me how increasing the burden on providers will provide these individuals with "better coverage" either in a qualitative or quantitative way.

Another side effect I see from this plan is that more bad doctors will get into and stay in practice. They are in high demand now - particularly the GP's - and the only way that our current system will be able to handle the new customers will be to lower the standards for the profession. Get ready for an inflx of MD's from the Aruba School of Medicine.

Regardless - don't confuse this bill with healthcare reform. It is merely healthcare inflation.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Explain to me how adding approximately 10% of new customers to an already overburdened and flawed system without a plan to expand the ability to provide services will lower costs? Yes, for those w/out coverage, better coverage is a given. For those with coverage, even a poor plan, explain to me how increasing the burden on providers will provide these individuals with "better coverage" either in a qualitative or quantitative way.

Another side effect I see from this plan is that more bad doctors will get into and stay in practice. They are in high demand now - particularly the GP's - and the only way that our current system will be able to handle the new customers will be to lower the standards for the profession. Get ready for an inflx of MD's from the Aruba School of Medicine.

Regardless - don't confuse this bill with healthcare reform. It is merely healthcare inflation.

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

Okay. The various grants may bring some relief to the supply problem. I guess I don't think it will be enough. We simply don't produce enough doctors. As for France, don't know if they have the same med mal issues we have or how they regulate their doctors. I could be wrong but I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison.

Hopefully my gloom and doom is incorrect. I just think we wasted a real opportunity for reform that will, in a barely adequate manner, solve only the most basic problem - everyone has insurance (However,people are still going to be underinsured).

As far as I am concerned it's a done deal. I am beginning to look at the financial planning needed and sacrifices that will be necessary when, 5 years from now, my premiums will be doubled. If I am wrong - great! We will have a windfall. Not counting on it though.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

The only reason you and I can afford healthcare is because we pool your hard earned dollars with our co-workers through our employer to negotiate a cheaper rate. The same principle applies with this bill as it sets up an exchange where anyone can purchase insurance. The bill also addresses increase in demand by allocating grants to Clinics and Health Centers (sec. 2511), grants for Nursing Education (sec. 2521), High School Health Science Training (sec. 2533), Health training programs for Community Colleges (sec. 118), class size reduction in nursing programs (sec. 2536). While the bill is not perfect it certainly goes a long way in addressing some of the future problems with our healthcare system. Let's not also forget that all of these new people won't use the system all at the same time.

If France can do it, we can do it. It's that simple.

So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So when you need open heart surgery your OK with the person who received their training at the local Community College?

You could do worse, could be getting it from someone that has high school training. We're all going to get treated by Community College graduates...we're doomed

I don't know why I bother