Different Season, Same Trap

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Shanahan is from the Walsh coaching tree. If there's anything difficult about learning a new playbook, it's the "language" part of it. It's highly doubtful Shanahan simply rejected the general "language" scheme of the Walsh O, such as colors defining a formation. Really, they could be considered "dialects" like British English and American English are.

There is at least one news report where it can be safe to infer that he is well ahead of the curve if Kelly or Cooley was the one who said it was like he has been here for the last couple of years.

Well let's hope when he's on the field he'll know the "dialect" for "Duck!", "Look out!", and "How many fingers am I holding up?".

...You can't tell me that we're going to have a parallel scheme to what Reid is running with the eagles, especially with the reliance on Westbrook & the pass receiving RB's through much of the latter years. This guy is going to have to through a learning curve whether it be personnel, scheme or both.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

Well let's hope when he's on the field he'll know the "dialect" for "Duck!", "Look out!", and "How many fingers am I holding up?".

...You can't tell me that we're going to have a parallel scheme to what Reid is running with the eagles, especially with the reliance on Westbrook & the pass receiving RB's through much of the latter years. This guy is going to have to through a learning curve whether it be personnel, scheme or both.

Favre certainly had trouble jumping from Sherman's WCO variant to Childress's Philly-based WCO, oh wait, he skipped training camp and STILL put up a monster season....
Then you also wonder how was Jeff Garcia even considered by all those other WCO teams after he left San Francisco. They playbook is simply too foreign and they never would sign him. O wait....

And if the dialect analogy is not satisfactory, perhaps an analogy of first learning Latin accelerating one's ability to learn Italian or any other Romance language is more suitable for your tastes.
What you're saying is more like McNabb is learning Latin and then learning something completely unrelated like Chinese or ancient Egyptian. Something utterly farfetched and ridiculous.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Favre certainly had trouble jumping from Sherman's WCO variant to Childress's Philly-based WCO, oh wait, he skipped training camp and STILL put up a monster season....
Then you also wonder how was Jeff Garcia even considered by all those other WCO teams after he left San Francisco. They playbook is simply too foreign and they never would sign him. O wait....

And if the dialect analogy is not satisfactory, perhaps an analogy of first learning Latin accelerating one's ability to learn Italian or any other Romance language is more suitable for your tastes.
What you're saying is more like McNabb is learning Latin and then learning something completely unrelated like Chinese or ancient Egyptian. Something utterly farfetched and ridiculous.

What I am more speaking about is fundamentals in scheme and not language of the WCO. The eagles offense relied heavily on short passes to a shifty RB coming out of the backfield. What he won't have here is the same offensive objectives of the short passes to pass catching RB's.

Brian Westbrook's Receptions vs. Clinton Portis's Receptions

2004 - 73 --------------------------> 2004 - 40
2005 - 61 --------------------------> 2005 - 30
2006 - 77 --------------------------> 2006 - 17* (8 games)
2007 - 90 --------------------------> 2007 - 47
2008 - 54 --------------------------> 2008 - 28

Shanahan's RB Receptions

2004 - Droughns & Griffin ----> 42
2005 - Bell & Anderson ------> 36
2006 - T. Bell & M. Bell ------> 44
2007 - Young & Sapp(FB) ---> 49
2008 - Hillis & Bell & Pittman -> 34


Doesn't matter what language you use, McNabb is adapting to a different focus in Shanahan's system. He's a veteran who will be equipped to do so, that's why Shanny wants him, but nevertheless he'll be dealing with a learning curve come time for training camp.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

What I am more speaking about is fundamentals in scheme and not language of the WCO. The eagles offense relied heavily on short passes to a shifty RB coming out of the backfield. What he won't have here is the same offensive objectives of the short passes to pass catching RB's.

Brian Westbrook's Receptions vs. Clinton Portis's Receptions

2004 - 73 --------------------------> 2004 - 40
2005 - 61 --------------------------> 2005 - 30
2006 - 77 --------------------------> 2006 - 17* (8 games)
2007 - 90 --------------------------> 2007 - 47
2008 - 54 --------------------------> 2008 - 28

Shanahan's RB Receptions

2004 - Droughns & Griffin ----> 42
2005 - Bell & Anderson ------> 36
2006 - T. Bell & M. Bell ------> 44
2007 - Young & Sapp(FB) ---> 49
2008 - Hillis & Bell & Pittman -> 34


Doesn't matter what language you use, McNabb is adapting to a different focus in Shanahan's system. He's a veteran who will be equipped to do so, that's why Shanny wants him, but nevertheless he'll be dealing with a learning curve come time for training camp.

Often in Phillies offense the wanted to get the recievers vertical to utilize DM's arm. In many cases that took all but the backs out of the play resulting in them getting more balls than most. At the same time it substituted for the running game. The WCO is the WCO is the WCO. It is the same thing it will just be used a little differently.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by Angry

Often in Phillies offense the wanted to get the recievers vertical to utilize DM's arm. In many cases that took all but the backs out of the play resulting in them getting more balls than most. At the same time it substituted for the running game. The WCO is the WCO is the WCO. It is the same thing it will just be used a little differently.

So Jim Zorn's is like Andy Reid's is like Mike Shanahan's?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

So Jim Zorn's is like Andy Reid's is like Mike Shanahan's?

Considering that the playbook itself consists of the plays and how the play is described in words, they will probably have some overlap and most of the terminology will not be different, hence why I used a language analogy. Once the language is learned, learning new plays is not difficult at all since a word equates to something on the picture, such as a color represents a certain formation.

West Coast offense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At the bottom in the links section are multiple examples of WCO playbooks from years past.

Zorn being a lousy playcaller simply means that he doesn't understand how to pick the right ones from the book or choose an appropriate order to call the plays in. The plays themselves may be just fine, but when the plays are called and how well they are disguised are also factors contributing to the plays success. And the talent on the team matters too, as a mediocre QB and crappy o-line are bound to be less awesome at running the plays than a team that is better at both or either position.

Zorn was using what Holmgren was using in Seattle when he first came here.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

So Jim Zorn's is like Andy Reid's is like Mike Shanahan's?

In general, that is not to say that there aren't slight variances. At their core they are all the same system with the same base principles. The WCO is just deployed differently by differnent teams based on player abilities.

Andy Reid had McNabb so he focused on the vertical passing aspect. Mike Shannahan had Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis and a host of other backs and liked to focus on the Zone running game. Zorn had one offensive lineman so he focused on running left and the 3 step sack.

When you break it down a QB of all 3 systems can tell you pretty much what "FB West Right Slot 372 'Y' Stick” means.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Angry

"FB West Right Slot 372 'Y' Stick” means.]

And BREAK!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Angry

When you break it down a QB of all 3 systems can tell you pretty much what "FB West Right Slot 372 'Y' Stick” means.

So what that means is that if you are on FaceBook while driving West, take the next Right, and park on the 3rd level #72, then take the girl and play "baseball". Am I close?

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by Angry

In general, that is not to say that there aren't slight variances. At their core they are all the same system with the same base principles. The WCO is just deployed differently by differnent teams based on player abilities.

Andy Reid had McNabb so he focused on the vertical passing aspect. Mike Shannahan had Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis and a host of other backs and liked to focus on the Zone running game. Zorn had one offensive lineman so he focused on running left and the 3 step sack.

When you break it down a QB of all 3 systems can tell you pretty much what "FB West Right Slot 372 'Y' Stick” means.

Lol.

Like I said McNabb can understand the language all he wants but playing with different personnel means that our focus will be different than what it was in philly.

Right now he has the same line Zorn had last year, sans Chris Samuels. Going downfield probably won't work too well with our line. And running a Zone Blocking scheme necessitates actual blockers.

As of now I can't tell you what our strong suit is that McNabb would have to adapt to. Whatever it is though he'll need time to get acclimated to it.