How far can Beck take us?

[skinsfaninok]

Just wait and see Gus, JB may turn out to be the surprise of the 2011 season.. And Rex played decent last year and knows the system. I would rather have Orton but I'm not going to just hope these guys fail in order to get a High pick in '12

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Just wait and see Gus, JB may turn out to be the surprise of the 2011 season.. And Rex played decent last year and knows the system. I would rather have Orton but I'm not going to just hope these guys fail in order to get a High pick in '12

Dude, I want Beck to make me eat crow. I am cheering for the guy, but this situation harkens back to when we were asked to suspend disbelief when Spurrier brought in Wuerffel and Mathews. 3rd string QB on the Dolphins, who were desperate for any warm body that could sling a football, and I am supposed to think this guy is a total gamer now?

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Dude, I want Beck to make me eat crow. I am cheering for the guy, but this situation harkens back to when we were asked to suspend disbelief when Spurrier brought in Wuerffel and Mathews. 3rd string QB on the Dolphins, who were desperate for any warm body that could sling a football, and I am supposed to think this guy is a total gamer now?

Well lol I agree to a degree BUT he's got some skills, Big arm and good athlete. Remember Tony Romo came out of no where also.. It's possible for him to have a good career under MS/KS.. In fact some writers have said he's just as good as Kolb as far as attributes.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Well lol I agree to a degree BUT he's got some skills, Big arm and good athlete. Remember Tony Romo came out of no where also.. It's possible for him to have a good career under MS/KS.. In fact some writers have said he's just as good as Kolb as far as attributes.

I hope you are right, but I will continue to be skeptical til preseason starts and I see him play. Right now I just think it is another hype job on an average journeyman QB.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I hope you are right, but I will continue to be skeptical til preseason starts and I see him play. Right now I just think it is another hype job on an average journeyman QB.

I still don't get how starting John Beck can be looked at as a hype job. What hype? There is none. Nobody is hyping him up like the next Kurt Warner. Everywhere I look, I see people trashing Shanny's decision. That's not hype. That's negativity. And even the remotely optimistic people are looking at Beck like there's a slight chance he could turn out to be good, and when I say good, I mean, okay game manager, not next undrafted qb to throw for 40 touchdowns when he finally got the opportunity. And if he does bad, he'll get benched. And we'll ride out the season, and in all likelihood, draft our franchise qb in the first round of next year's draft.

Edit: Example #1. Dan Graziano, who has become my new favorite blogger on ESPN since he replaced Matt Mosley, wrote this on Friday.

Originally Posted by Dan Graziano

Washington was the busiest team in the division all week until Friday, when they didn't make a move of major consequence. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan talked about what he sees as the looming quarterback competition between John Beck and Rex Grossman, which kind of reminded everybody that all the other moves the Redskins have been making could have a hard time helping too much in 2011...

It doesn't take a genius to know that he's saying for all the good moves we're making, qb is probably going to hold us back this year. And that's the prevailing theme amongst writers, bloggers, and tv pundits everywhere.

[NLC1054]

REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.

Love that opening line NLC. Good job. And great post.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely wasn't on the "start a 6th rounder or an undrafted free agent qb over Jason Campbell" bandwagon. I was on the "fix the offensive line" bandwagon though.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

Honestly, I don't blame them. I mean last year I laughed at the Cards for cutting Leinart and starting Anderson, and in retrospect I was right. Now the Skins seem to be doing the same thing by trading McNabb, except in this case the only thing keeping the Beck experiment from being a complete laughing stock is once again, Shanny's track record with these types of players.

A young Brian Griese, a statistical pariah in Jake Plummer, and even INT king Jay Cutler who despite being a first round QB was an afterthought after Young and Leinart in 06. Between the two Shanny's you have 5 pro bowl QB's that made it to Hawaii/Miami under their tutelage.

I don't know, I guess I don't want to be a Beck apologist just because he's the favorite to be the starting QB this year. I want to be able to do it for the right reasons. From what I've seen a Kool Aid drinker can easily be just as annoying as a doom and gloomer.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

That's bull, though.

Jim Zorn didn't even want Colt.

Vinny didn't draft Colt because he thought he'd contribute, Vinny drafted Colt because he was a relatively big name. Just like Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas from the same class. They weren't the most talented players, they were the biggest names on the board at their points in the draft.

Zorn didn't know what the hell to do with Colt. And despite his general ineptitude as a head coach, the guy is a pretty damn good quarterback coach, and he didn't know what the hell to do with a guy that he didn't even want.

No one believed Colt was ever going to become anything more than a back-up. He had an intriguing skill set, but he was a quarterback that put up big numbers in a system that doesn't even pretend the run game.

There was a reason Chase Daniel went undrafted too. Same thing as Colt; intriguing skill set. But he didn't light it up in preseason, and he didn't beat out Colt to be the third quarterback, and God knows he wasn't beating out Todd Collins and Jason Campbell. So he got cut.

John Beck was actually highly touted coming out of college. He played five games for a horrible Miami team, and then there was a regime change, and just like we're doing now, when you change regimes, some guys get left behind. Beck is that guy.

Beck did make third string back-up for the Dolphins in 2008. And then he went to Bill Parcells and basically put the cards on the table and asked if he was going to be able to compete for a starting role. Parcells pretty much told him no, and Beck asked to be traded or cut. He got cut.

Troy Smith was slated to be the starter in 2009 for the Ravens, and Flacco was the back-up, and John Beck was never going to compete with either one of those guys. He was bought in to be the third guy, and he knew he was going in to be the third string back-up guy. He wasn't given the opportunity to compete. Again.

Then we traded for him, and we extended his contract before Rex, before DONOVAN even. Which meant we liked what we saw.

Now he's getting his chance.

Know your facts before you start labeling people "journeymen" who struggled to make the third string.

[Dirtbag59]

I'm getting more nervous about the Beck experiment everyday. I mean I know he's doing everything he can control in terms of preperation and everything else but if I wasn't a Skins fan I would be shaking my head at the prospect of Beck as a viable starter. Shanahan's track record is the only glue keeping this together.

[SmootSmack]

Come testify at the Chapell! The Chappell of Ben!!!! Championship!!!!