How far can Beck take us?

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely wasn't on the "start a 6th rounder or an undrafted free agent qb over Jason Campbell" bandwagon. I was on the "fix the offensive line" bandwagon though.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely wasn't on the "start a 6th rounder or an undrafted free agent qb over Jason Campbell" bandwagon. I was on the "fix the offensive line" bandwagon though.

Oh really now? You had threads about these two guys, with a lot of debates going on. I wasn't on the Colt bandwagon, but was for Chase somewhat. Remember the Cult of Colt? I should not have said everybody, but everybody seemed to have an opinion about those two, and each one had their "fans". Like you, I also wanted them to revamp the O line, but did want to see a QB shakeup, if anything to light a fire under JC's butt!

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Oh really now? You had threads about these two guys, with a lot of debates going on. I wasn't on the Colt bandwagon, but was for Chase somewhat. Remember the Cult of Colt? I should not have said everybody, but everybody seemed to have an opinion about those two, and each one had their "fans". Like you, I also wanted them to revamp the O line, but did want to see a QB shakeup, if anything to light a fire under JC's butt!

I had threads about Chase Daniel and the Cult of Colt? When? If you can find a specific instance of me saying I would prefer Chase Daniel or Colt Brennan to start over JC, please, enlighten me. And the Cult of Colt was a joke. Not in the, all the members of that club were losers sense, more in the, I don't think any of the members of that club actually were serious about Colt Brennan starting, sense.

You are right, in that everybody did have their opinions about those two, but even their fans probably weren't serious about a rookie 6th round quarterback or an undrafted free agent starting at quarterback in the upcoming season. Hell, Smootsmack was/is one of Chase Daniels' biggest "fans" on this board, but go and ask him if he really thinks Daniel should've started over JC, despite the fact that he was undrafted and a system qb at Mizzou.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

Honestly, I don't blame them. I mean last year I laughed at the Cards for cutting Leinart and starting Anderson, and in retrospect I was right. Now the Skins seem to be doing the same thing by trading McNabb, except in this case the only thing keeping the Beck experiment from being a complete laughing stock is once again, Shanny's track record with these types of players.

A young Brian Griese, a statistical pariah in Jake Plummer, and even INT king Jay Cutler who despite being a first round QB was an afterthought after Young and Leinart in 06. Between the two Shanny's you have 5 pro bowl QB's that made it to Hawaii/Miami under their tutelage.

I don't know, I guess I don't want to be a Beck apologist just because he's the favorite to be the starting QB this year. I want to be able to do it for the right reasons. From what I've seen a Kool Aid drinker can easily be just as annoying as a doom and gloomer.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

That's bull, though.

Jim Zorn didn't even want Colt.

Vinny didn't draft Colt because he thought he'd contribute, Vinny drafted Colt because he was a relatively big name. Just like Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas from the same class. They weren't the most talented players, they were the biggest names on the board at their points in the draft.

Zorn didn't know what the hell to do with Colt. And despite his general ineptitude as a head coach, the guy is a pretty damn good quarterback coach, and he didn't know what the hell to do with a guy that he didn't even want.

No one believed Colt was ever going to become anything more than a back-up. He had an intriguing skill set, but he was a quarterback that put up big numbers in a system that doesn't even pretend the run game.

There was a reason Chase Daniel went undrafted too. Same thing as Colt; intriguing skill set. But he didn't light it up in preseason, and he didn't beat out Colt to be the third quarterback, and God knows he wasn't beating out Todd Collins and Jason Campbell. So he got cut.

John Beck was actually highly touted coming out of college. He played five games for a horrible Miami team, and then there was a regime change, and just like we're doing now, when you change regimes, some guys get left behind. Beck is that guy.

Beck did make third string back-up for the Dolphins in 2008. And then he went to Bill Parcells and basically put the cards on the table and asked if he was going to be able to compete for a starting role. Parcells pretty much told him no, and Beck asked to be traded or cut. He got cut.

Troy Smith was slated to be the starter in 2009 for the Ravens, and Flacco was the back-up, and John Beck was never going to compete with either one of those guys. He was bought in to be the third guy, and he knew he was going in to be the third string back-up guy. He wasn't given the opportunity to compete. Again.

Then we traded for him, and we extended his contract before Rex, before DONOVAN even. Which meant we liked what we saw.

Now he's getting his chance.

Know your facts before you start labeling people "journeymen" who struggled to make the third string.