Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Listen it's not all Mike's fault but this team isn't getting much better by the seasons he's been here which is 3 now. Like I said in the postgame thread, RG3 is making MS look good this year BUT he is also making it easier for a rookie to come in and be effective. Honestly I think Griffin is the type of QB any coach could win with.

3-5 after 8 games which is on pace for 6-10 again. Question is who do u replace Mike with?

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

I reserve the right to change this opinion after 8 more games, but at this point, bringing Shanahan back for 2013 would be way more inexcusable than bringing Zorn back for 2009 was. And could result in a season that would be even more of a disaster.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

Gibbs was here 4 years.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by mooby

Gibbs was here 4 years.

Gibbs doesn't count, cuz he's Gibbs. No one would dream of firing him. :P Although I remember people calling for his head too.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Gibbs doesn't count, cuz he's Gibbs. No one would dream of firing him. :P Although I remember people calling for his head too.

No my point was you said no coach since Norval has lasted more than 3 years, which Gibbs did. It wasn't so much about whether he deserved to be fired. I remember fans calling for Gibbs' head too, saying he was out-of-touch, etc. I definitely didn't want Gibbs to leave either.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mooby

No my point was you said no coach since Norval has lasted more than 3 years, which Gibbs did. It wasn't so much about whether he deserved to be fired. I remember fans calling for Gibbs' head too, saying he was out-of-touch, etc. I definitely didn't want Gibbs to leave either.

Gibbs 2.0 won within his first two years of coming back. He had already justified his re-hire heading into year three.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by mooby

Gibbs was here 4 years.

Four years is a lifetime in the national football league. The league is structured, and I'm talking about the cap, the draft method, and FA, such that you can turn a franchise around in just three years. It's been done plenty.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.

You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.

The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

I'm shocked...that kind of clear logic didn't crash the site

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

New head coach usually means there are more changes underway. I imagine if Mike goes, Kyle goes, which means a new offensive scheme to learn. I doubt Haslett sees another year here after this debacle, so we may or may not be switching back to 4-3 which if we did, means a new defensive scheme to learn and 3-4 with the Skins is all some of these guys know.

Considering how awful the defense has been I see defensive overhaul in the future along with depth signings.

So basically we're back in complete rebuilding mode. Again.

I'd rather them fire Haslett, fill in the gaps on defense with the draft and free agency, see how the Shanahan's fair next year, then take another look at him coaching here.