Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by donofriose

In one season and half Harbaugh has 5 more wins than Mike's two season and half. In what way has this team improved? We were always competitive but so is every team in the NFL. He has done nothing to prove that he deserves to be here.

Can't compare us to SF. Harbaugh inherited a solid offense with Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Joe Staley, Adam Snyder, Justin Smiley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis (a complete OL drafted in rounds 1-3 in years '04-'10) not to mention Patrick Willis, Dashon Goldson, Navarro Bowman, Shawnte Spencer on defense. Add in Justin Smith and Carlos Rogers in free agency. Their talent base far surpassed what Shanahan has ever had with the Redskins. They had 15 first and second round picks from '04-'10 predating Harbaugh, including 3 drafts with multiple first round picks. We had 10, three of those were 2nd round picks in 2008 which we all know how those turned out.

It's simply a flawed comparison that isn't realistic.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Can't compare us to SF. Harbaugh inherited a solid offense with Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Joe Staley, Adam Snyder, Justin Smiley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis (a complete OL drafted in rounds 1-3 in years '04-'10) not to mention Patrick Willis, Dashon Goldson, Navarro Bowman, Shawnte Spencer on defense. Add in Justin Smith and Carlos Rogers in free agency. Their talent base far surpassed what Shanahan has ever had with the Redskins. They had 15 first and second round picks from '04-'10 predating Harbaugh, including 3 drafts with multiple first round picks. We had 10, three of those were 2nd round picks in 2008 which we all know how those turned out.

It's simply a flawed comparison that isn't realistic.

Before Harbaugh a lot of those players were not names you can list off like that. Singletary went 5-10 with a lot of those same players. We had carlos rogers so to list him makes us seem dumb to let him go. Unlike the 49ers Shanahan cannot make significant draft picks outside the 1st and 2nd round. Bowman, Snyder and gholdson were not high draft picks. The 49ers are only one example, what the Giants did the first three years under coughlin also showed they were building a team. What we have done under Mikes tenure is lose one more game every season. To say that some one inherits a talented team is basically saying the coach gets the most of his players unlike the coach before him. That is what Harbuagh does, that is what Coughlin does, that is what Sean payton does, Belichick, Smith, all the good coaches in the NFL. Coaches get the best out of their players... Shanahan does not do that. Orakpo, Kerrigan, Carriker, Fred Davis, Trent Williams, Landry, Rogers, Fletcher (excluding this year) Redskins are talented, but its obvious they are not coached to be the best they can be.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Before Harbaugh a lot of those players were not names you can list off like that. Singletary went 5-10 with a lot of those same players. We had carlos rogers so to list him makes us seem dumb to let him go. Unlike the 49ers Shanahan cannot make significant draft picks outside the 1st and 2nd round. Bowman, Snyder and gholdson were not high draft picks. The 49ers are only one example, what the Giants did the first three years under coughlin also showed they were building a team. What we have done under Mikes tenure is lose one more game every season. To say that some one inherits a talented team is basically saying the coach gets the most of his players unlike the coach before him. That is what Harbuagh does, that is what Coughlin does, that is what Sean payton does, Belichick, Smith, all the good coaches in the NFL. Coaches get the best out of their players... Shanahan does not do that. Orakpo, Kerrigan, Carriker, Fred Davis, Trent Williams, Landry, Rogers, Fletcher (excluding this year) Redskins are talented, but its obvious they are not coached to be the best they can be.

If you were paying attention you could. The Niners were a 'sleeping giant' for years out west. Remember, most pundits picked them to win the West the year Singletary crapped the bed with them. They had talent but needed it to come together. Can you say we've had comparable talent? Really? No other team has completely remade their roster and had fast success.

So based on you rattling off Harbaugh, Coughlin, Belichick, Smith all of the 'good coaches' are you implying that any of them would be winning with our current roster (and injuries) AND that talent is secondary to coaching ability?

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If you were paying attention you could. The Niners were a 'sleeping giant' for years out west. Remember, most pundits picked them to win the West the year Singletary crapped the bed with them. They had talent but needed it to come together. Can you say we've had comparable talent? Really? No other team has completely remade their roster and had fast success.

So based on you rattling off Harbaugh, Coughlin, Belichick, Smith all of the 'good coaches' are you implying that any of them would be winning with our current roster (and injuries) AND that talent is secondary to coaching ability?

Many considered the skins a sleeping a giant. We were always in games but because of questionable coaching and the lack of a QB we couldn't win. We have the QB and now we are still losing. Yes I believe a better coach would build a team that would show a lot more progress than we have had the past three years. Coughlin took the Jaguars to the playoffs multiple times, the giants were not "talented" until he took over, same thing with Belichick with the Patriots and Smith with the Falcons. Part of being a great coach is getting the best out of the talent you have.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Many considered the skins a sleeping a giant. We were always in games but because of questionable coaching and the lack of a QB we couldn't win. We have the QB and now we are still losing. Yes I believe a better coach would build a team that would show a lot more progress than we have had the past three years. Coughlin took the Jaguars to the playoffs multiple times, the giants were not "talented" until he took over, same thing with Belichick with the Patriots and Smith with the Falcons. Part of being a great coach is getting the best out of the talent you have.

Who considered us a sleeping giant in 2010? C'mon dude, we were a well earned laughingstock.

Agreed, we are still losing. Understand we are missing our #1 WR, our #1 TE, our starting RT, best pass rusher, starting DE and both projected starting safeties. Do you think any of those would make a difference in our record or it is all on Shanahan the coach?

Do you distinguish between the coach and the GM? I give the GM a 5 for roster composition but the coach an 8 for us being competitive in each game. Even the Steeler game if we execute we are in the game. The last 3 games have been crippled by turnovers (NYG), dropped passes (PIT), penalties (CAR) and blown assignments/missed tackles (ALL). We've had 3 TD taken off the board by penalties in those games. Think those are on the coaches ability to get the best out of the talent you have? Those end up on the coach because he has to get them to execute but do you think the players are not put in position to make winning plays?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Can't compare us to SF. Harbaugh inherited a solid offense with Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Joe Staley, Adam Snyder, Justin Smiley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis (a complete OL drafted in rounds 1-3 in years '04-'10) not to mention Patrick Willis, Dashon Goldson, Navarro Bowman, Shawnte Spencer on defense. Add in Justin Smith and Carlos Rogers in free agency. Their talent base far surpassed what Shanahan has ever had with the Redskins. They had 15 first and second round picks from '04-'10 predating Harbaugh, including 3 drafts with multiple first round picks. We had 10, three of those were 2nd round picks in 2008 which we all know how those turned out.

It's simply a flawed comparison that isn't realistic.

Harbaugh also didn't come in and try and trade for an over the hill QB. He coached up what he had and molded a low risk offense around Smith. Mike wasn't willing to do that so he has to be held accountable cause the trade blew up in his face.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Harbaugh also didn't come in and try and trade for an over the hill QB. He coached up what he had and molded a low risk offense around Smith. Mike wasn't willing to do that so he has to be held accountable cause the trade blew up in his face.

Yes, Shanahan made a bad trade for McNabb. Any other 2010 thread topics you'd like to revisit? Are you suggesting fire him now for a 2010 move?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Yes, Shanahan made a bad trade for McNabb. Any other 2010 thread topics you'd like to revisit? Are you suggesting fire him now for a 2010 move?

No..it's too many other things, not just the McNabb deal. I'd like to see him go but for the sake of RG3 hopefully gets one more year.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Yes, Shanahan made a bad trade for McNabb. Any other 2010 thread topics you'd like to revisit? Are you suggesting fire him now for a 2010 move?

Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

Shanahan has let the game pass him by. There are better coaches out there than him. Hire one of em, RG3 would only have one year gone, the rest of his career ahead of him. His three years of team building have netted the following....

1. Younger Squad (a plus)
2. Worst defense in the league
3. A Defense with zero depth on pace to allow the most yards EVER in the history of the NFL
4. An injury prone 46 million dollar receiver who is out the rest of the season, and has only really earned his paycheck in one out of his 4 games
5. The most penalized team in the league
6. A very sketchy special teams, revolving door at kicker
7. His son at Offensive coordinator, so firing due to underperformance or lack of progress is out the window
8. Throwing players under the bus and admitting defeat
9. A much happier sunshiney attitude at Redskins park, on every day of the week other than Sundays.
10. A 33.8% Win percentage
11. Abysmal home w/l record
12. Absolutely atrocious time management during games. Just awful.
13. Highly questionable offseason acquisitions that do not compute or support the "team building" concept (too many to list)
14. A rookie quarterback and runningback who are carrying the load of the rest of the deficient squad, enabling a mirage of competitiveness. (which also cost the next two first round draft picks, so combine that with the 18 million penalty next year, where are the pieces supposed to come from? Doesn't sound like he planned well for the pieces. Sounds like now its more of a 5-6 year plan from NOW in order to realistically think he will build a contender.
15. No sniff of the playoff in three years, check that, no sniff of a 8 win season in three years.



No way he deserves another year.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

So there's no merit in the fact that of the players from the team that Shanahan inherited that are no longer Redskins only two (Rogers & Landry) are starting elsewhere? That roster had so much talent that only 6 others (Rinehart, Tryon, McIntosh, Campbell, Dockery, E. Williams) are still in the NFL 3 years later? 8 of 53 is a pretty rotten percentage.

McNabb trade, huge mistake, nobody would dispute that. I'd even agree with points 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11 and 15 from your post. Too soon to call Garçon a bust. Now that Kyle has a QB to work with, the offense is productive.

You brought up the lack of #1 picks and $18 million cap penalty, so you think someone fresh and new will be able to reshape (meaning start over again) a roster in his vision with that looming on top of the long list you compiled? Good luck.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So there's no merit in the fact that of the players from the team that Shanahan inherited that are no longer Redskins only two (Rogers & Landry) are starting elsewhere? That roster had so much talent that only 6 others (Rinehart, Tryon, McIntosh, Campbell, Dockery, E. Williams) are still in the NFL 3 years later? 8 of 53 is a pretty rotten percentage.

McNabb trade, huge mistake, nobody would dispute that. I'd even agree with points 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11 and 15 from your post. Too soon to call Garçon a bust. Now that Kyle has a QB to work with, the offense is productive.

You brought up the lack of #1 picks and $18 million cap penalty, so you think someone fresh and new will be able to reshape (meaning start over again) a roster in his vision with that looming on top of the long list you compiled? Good luck.

I think that bringing in a new defensive guy, as well as a new HC would not hurt. We are not exactly "winning", right now, why should shanahan keep his job? What makes you think it won't be more of the same? What has he done, and lets say just in season three, to instill any sort of confidence in his squad outside of RG3. the last 2 games, Almo even looked pedestrian. Goat was correct when he said the last 4 games, the defense has started to slowly roll downhill. Add penalties, injuries with no depth, and a horrible home winning %, and I don't see any coach with 1 playoff victory in 14 years that should keep his job with stuff looking like that. The question is will we fire shanahan. I'm pretty sure he is gonna get one more crack at a full season. The real question should be, if we do not make the playoffs next year, and say finish 8-8 or even 9-7, does that make up for the mediocre 4 years? Does shanny then get to stay on longer? Are we that desperate to feel that an 8-8 record is a step up? What is wrong with the fans. With a "pedigree" like Mike has, we should be screaming from the rooftops DEMANDING more. With him being such a winning coach, we sure do alot of losing. Again, and many have said it, many supposedly inferior coaches have done MUCH more with MUCH less. And he even has a rookie QB that plays like an elite vet, and still no results.

CUT BAIT.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

I think that bringing in a new defensive guy, as well as a new HC would not hurt. We are not exactly "winning", right now, why should shanahan keep his job? What makes you think it won't be more of the same? What has he done, and lets say just in season three, to instill any sort of confidence in his squad outside of RG3. the last 2 games, Almo even looked pedestrian. Goat was correct when he said the last 4 games, the defense has started to slowly roll downhill. Add penalties, injuries with no depth, and a horrible home winning %, and I don't see any coach with 1 playoff victory in 14 years that should keep his job with stuff looking like that. The question is will we fire shanahan. I'm pretty sure he is gonna get one more crack at a full season. The real question should be, if we do not make the playoffs next year, and say finish 8-8 or even 9-7, does that make up for the mediocre 4 years? Does shanny then get to stay on longer? Are we that desperate to feel that an 8-8 record is a step up? What is wrong with the fans. With a pedigree like Mike has, we should be screaming from the rooftops DEMANDING more.

I'm with you on a new DC, we need better schemes, better coaching and better players. As for the HC, I don't think changing course at this point would be good long term for RGIII or the team as a whole. Next year I expect another solid draft and targeted free agency, 9 wins, that would represent progress.