Cerrato wants more draft picks

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

I disagree. I think we should judge draft picks within a week of when they were drafted. It's only logical

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.

Yeah possibly, that's why I threw in that "for whatever reason"

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

Matt, How do you remain so patient & positive in regards to this front office? I have loved this team pretty much since birth and will continue to love it unconditionaly...but I just don't have one ounce of patience left for a front office that involves Vinny. I mean the Chiefs just got Piolli and are talking about Mike Shannahan as coach and we are sitting here with Vinny who I doubt could get a job with any other team in the league.

[SmootSmack]

Did they get Shanahan? Has Pioli proven he can be successful without Belichick? I mean props to the Patriots for getting things done, but there are several things they've done similar to the Redskins-not playing draft picks their rookie year, going after older vets that have panned out for them where they haven't as much for us

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Did they get Shanahan? Has Pioli proven he can be successful without Belichick? I mean props to the Patriots for getting things done, but there are several things they've done similar to the Redskins-not playing draft picks their rookie year, going after older vets that have panned out for them where they haven't as much for us

Your right maybe Pioli won't be any good, but maybe he will be. Who knows. I am just done with Vinny...I don't care if his involvement in the decisions for the last 10 years has been 25% or 90%...other then Marty's year he has been involved on some level and it hasn't worked out. I am not saying last years draft picks are busts yet...it goes much deeper then that...I don't believe he ever did anything to merrit the promotion in the first place.

Let me ask you a simple question since you are much more connected than any of us. Do you believe the redskins current front office structure is respected around the NFL? I don't believe it is and that bothers me. I remember a time when the Redskins were among the most respected organizations in sports and I don't feel we are anymore and that bothers me almost as much as the losses.

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Muhahahahah, yes it always sounds good, untill those draft picks become Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, and Justin Tryon. Jury's still out on all of them of course but right now my confidence in Vinny with more picks is very low. However if those picks become offensive and defensive lineman I will tip my hat to the man. Still though I would rather have him try to find a good player with an easier pick then trying to find value at the expense of our lines and such with later picks before the 5th round.

Either way if you held a gun to my head and said guess which positions the Redskins are going to draft with their first three picks (weather they be the 1,3, and 5 or whatever they turn into on draft day) I would guess we end up with a running back, outside linebacker, and cornerback followed by the same spiel of best player available. Really hope I get proved wrong.

Dude your acting like Thomas, Kelly and Davis were all bad picks. I think this coming season we will see what they are capable of. You can't say as of right now they were a bust.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

Huh? How do you figure? If we trade '10 picks for more '09 picks, how can we repeat the behavior next year if we have no picks to work with??

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

Actually Waldskins - from what I understand if you trade picks in later years for the current draft you lose value - for example if you wanted another teams 1st round pick this year and were willing to trade future picks - the way the point system works would not be 1 for 1, but rather the team trading the future pick (in this case the Skins) would have to give up more picks to complete the deal (like a 1st and a 4th). Here is a link and qoute to what I am referring to:

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

"In instances where next year’s draft picks are traded, teams generally divide the league into quadrants, ranking how they expect a team to finish next year. If the Chargers were to deal with the Eagles, who are expected by many to finish in the top eight next year after an active offseason, San Diego could expect a 2005 first-round pick belonging to Philadelphia to be worth 680-800 points. If the Chargers were considering a trade with the 49ers, who are expected to finish in the bottom eight after depleting their roster of much of its veteran talent to better position the team financially for the future, they could expect to receive value ranging from 1,400 to 3,000 points. However, because there is so much parity in the league and it's difficult to predict where a club will finish, some teams generally expect to receive about 1,000 points in exchange for a future first-round pick from a bad team and 750 from a contender. Also, in any trade involving draft choices in both the current year and a future year, most teams will value, say, a fourth-round pick in the current draft as being worth a third-rounder in next year's draft — the team receiving the future pick moving up a round in return for having to wait an extra year to exercise its pick.

So basically using this methodolgy if the Skins keep trading future picks they are mortgaging their future even more....

[SmootSmack]

The structure? Yeah, I mean it's not as uncommon as a lot of people think to have that structure. The people? Well let's see (best as I have gathered)

Eric Schaeffer-Definitely respected
Morocco Brown/Scott Campbell-yes, but not really known
Scouts-mostly considered decent, but no particularly special skills. No one stands out as a keen eye for uncovered can't miss talent
Cerrato-not so much as a person, more or less as an executive

But it just seems that more often than not we automatically assume than any move we make is awful and any move any other team makes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Our philosophy sucks, while everyone else's is awesome...even when it's the same philosophy.

[celts32]

Okay thanks...nice to know we have at least some respected people.

[celts32]

One other thing...I recognize that other teams make the same exact mistakes that the redskins make. The only difference is that in other organizations, after 2 or 3 years of not winning people get fired and they start over. In Washington we have one person that seems to always be immune from responsibility.

[Whiteboi_J]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Good to hear that, I wonder if they will shopping their #13th pick (I'm sure they could get 2 or 3 picks out of it). I guess the other option would be trading someone? I would say Moss or Rogers.

Trading Moss wouldn't be the best idea since he's our #1 receiver, and none of the 3 rookies have proven nothin yet. As for Rogers, I think we still need him. We'll re-sign hall...he's a great zone corner, and if we can draft Raji and start forcing more 3rd and longs, we can play zone more and let Hall come up with a few balls. Also, if we trade Rogers, who is our #2 CB? com'on now, they are NOT going anywhere

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

Dude your acting like Thomas, Kelly and Davis were all bad picks. I think this coming season we will see what they are capable of. You can't say as of right now they were a bust.

BRO YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO ME THEN JUST SAY IT. Oh wait you did. lol. Anyway the thing I was trying draw attention to was the overkill on recievers with high picks. Despite the fact that among other things they could easily have gotten a nice number 2 tight end in 2007 with Ben Patrick (projected 3rd round by Mike Mayock), however we decided to go after Jordan Palmer only to cut him. All the while Patrick is providing decent production for Arizona including that nice two point conversion against the Eagles (Keep in mind the guy averages only 14.5 ypg but thats definately more then we got from Davis).

However among other things I do very much agree that the jury is still out. My fear is that as you go down the draft the number of quality tackles decreases at a much quicker rate. Very rarely will you see a guy like Joe Staley last as long as he did, and I wouldn't bank on finding the next Marcus McNeil or Tony Ugoh in the second round.

Right now all I want is for the team to sit pretty at 13 and take Michael Oher or BJ Rali. Preferably Oher because we need more help at Tackle and Tackles usually have an easier time coming in and contributing. Then follow that up with the best available guard or center. Find a quality depth guy in the 5th thats capable of collapsing the pocket, and then look for a special teams guy that might eventually become a servicealbe OLB.

To me that would be a wonderful draft.

Of course as said before I will not be surprised to see the team with a new running back, outside linebacker, and corner come draft day.