Sean Taylors play

[gabe1984]

I am not willing to admit that Sean Taylor's play has regressed since his first season playing for the Redskins. If you look at the last 6 Superbowl winners, they have all had great safeties on the defense. Let's rewind. Colts - Bob Sander, Steelers- Troy Polomalu, Patriots X2 - Rodney Harrison, Bucs - John Lynch, and then Harrison again. However, IMO, not one of these guys are the best player on their defense. They are able to go out and make plays beceause they all had a front 7 who could take care of business, unlike the Skins had last year. If you look at the 2005 season when our front 7 was good, Taylor was making plays all over the place!!!! No one cany deny that. Do you think Ed Reed would be as good as he is, and I'm not trying to take away from Reed because he's probably going to go down as one of the best saeties ever to play. But, do you think he would be as good as he is without playing with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAllister, Adalius Thomas, or Terrell Suggs. I doubt it.

I feel like safety is a tough position to be making a lot of game changing plays at, like ST did in 2005, when the guys in front of you suck. If you took any one of the safeties I just mentioned and put them in instead of Taylor last year, I doubt any of them could do much better, IMO.

Is it true that ST missed a lot of tackles last year, yes it is. However, if you look closely at a lot of those plays, Sean was running from the other side of the field trying to make a play on a guy that was not even his responsibility!! So, yeah he may of missed some tackles, but a lot of those most safties in the NFL wouldnt be able to even come close to putting themselves in a position to make the play in the first place. ST is a freakin beast, and he's going to haunt your dreams for talking bad about him. He can do that.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

I am not willing to admit that Sean Taylor's play has regressed since his first season playing for the Redskins. If you look at the last 6 Superbowl winners, they have all had great safeties on the defense. Let's rewind. Colts - Bob Sander, Steelers- Troy Polomalu, Patriots X2 - Rodney Harrison, Bucs - John Lynch, and then Harrison again. However, IMO, not one of these guys are the best player on their defense. They are able to go out and make plays beceause they all had a front 7 who could take care of business, unlike the Skins had last year. If you look at the 2005 season when our front 7 was good, Taylor was making plays all over the place!!!! No one cany deny that. Do you think Ed Reed would be as good as he is, and I'm not trying to take away from Reed because he's probably going to go down as one of the best saeties ever to play. But, do you think he would be as good as he is without playing with the likes of Ray Lewis, Chris McAllister, Adalius Thomas, or Terrell Suggs. I doubt it.

I feel like safety is a tough position to be making a lot of game changing plays at, like ST did in 2005, when the guys in front of you suck. If you took any one of the safeties I just mentioned and put them in instead of Taylor last year, I doubt any of them could do much better, IMO.

Is it true that ST missed a lot of tackles last year, yes it is. However, if you look closely at a lot of those plays, Sean was running from the other side of the field trying to make a play on a guy that was not even his responsibility!! So, yeah he may of missed some tackles, but a lot of those most safties in the NFL wouldnt be able to even come close to putting themselves in a position to make the play in the first place. ST is a freakin beast, and he's going to haunt your dreams for talking bad about him. He can do that.

I think it's also worth pointing out that Sean led the Skins in tackles last year, and was in fact, one of the leading tacklers in all of the NFL last year.

Within NFL circles, I think it's safe to say many consider #21 one of the top safety's playing today.

That being said, I think if his number of tackles drop by 10 or so this year, it's possible his production will improve as a result.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think it's also worth pointing out that Sean led the Skins in tackles last year, and was in fact, one of the leading tacklers in all of the NFL last year.

Within NFL circles, I think it's safe to say many consider #21 one of the top safety's playing today.

That being said, I think if his number of tackles drop by 10 or so this year, it's possible his production will improve as a result.

Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?

I think he means he won't get the chance to make as many tackles because hopefully our LBs and DL can stop the running backs before they even get to the secondary. This will give ST more of an opportunity to roam around the field and snag passes as well as pulverize a poor little TO or Tony Romo. So while me may not have as many tackles, he has more of an opportunity to make ints, sacks, or plays for losses in the backfield.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Please explain what you mean by production improving with less tackles. What?

Simply put, doing less on his part means he'll probably end up being more productive, being in postion more often than not. He was a run support demon last year. That can be directly attributed to the 'bites' and mis-reads and bad angles he got burned on last year.

I think he got caught looking in the back field too much last year and relied on athleticism to make for it. But this is the NFL, no amount of athleticism can make up for a five or ten yard jump, I don't care who you are.

Another thing, look at Ed Reed's stats from last year, or any comparable saftey at the same position, and you'll probably see they had significantly less tackles than Sean Taylor.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Simply put, doing less on his part means he'll probably end up being more productive, being in postion more often than not. He was a run support demon last year. That can be directly attributed to the 'bites' and mis-reads and bad angles he got burned on last year.

I think he got caught looking in the back field too much last year, and relied on athleticism to make for it. But this is the NFL, no amount of athleticism can make up for a five or ten yard jump, I don't care who you are.

Another thing, look at Ed Reed's stats from last year, or any comparable saftey at the same position, and you'll probably see they had significantly less tackles than Sean Taylor.

I understand completely what you are saying. But consider this, production is production whether he gets it in tackles or INT's, it is still production. So I believe that a more appropriate way to explain what you are saying is shift his focus to be more productive against the pass and worry less about the run. Correct.

[Southpaw]

Using the word "regressed" is completely inaccurate when describing Taylors season last year. Regression is usually based on a trend, and Taylor had one down season, as did the entire defense. That is not a trend. It's a down season.

And describing his play for last season as poor is a matter of perspective. He blew a few coverages, but he had 35 more tackles last season, than the average of his first two seasons, so it's just as easy to say the front seven blew quite a few assignments as well. He obviously had to compensate for the lack of production around him, which directly affected his own production.

With the way the defense performed as a unit last season, it's ignorant to say that Taylor individually cost Washington any games.

[Schneed10]

Using tackles to measure the impact of a safety is a very bad metric. Having your safeties make a ton of tackles is the last thing you want; you want the ball carrier tackled before he reaches that level of the defense.

The fact that Taylor had 129 tackles speaks more to the ineptitude of our front 7 than it does to Taylor's "production".

INTs are a decent measure, but even those are driven by the opportunities to make INTs. For many years, Champ Bailey had only 2 or 3 INTs per season because nobody threw at him. QBs went after Archuleta a lot more than they tested Taylor. Plus, a defensive line that gets to the QB can often force an ill-advised pass, increasing the opportunities for your safeties to intercept the ball. If you have a worthless pass rush, you can't expect that many INT opportunities.

Defensive player performance can't be easily measured by statistics. You really just have to watch the guys play. I saw Taylor taking bad angles at times last season. I also saw him having to cover for Archuleta's inept play, which Taylor deserves credit for. I saw Taylor make a handful of impact plays, ripping fumbles loose, a couple INTs, and several huge tackles (the Carolina game). And I also saw him fail to get on the same page in terms of communication with the rest of the secondary (Taylor may not be to blame here, that could have been the coaching staff's fault for all we know). Overall he had a good season but has some room for improvement.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Using tackles to measure the impact of a safety is a very bad metric. Having your safeties make a ton of tackles is the last thing you want; you want the ball carrier tackled before he reaches that level of the defense.

The fact that Taylor had 129 tackles speaks more to the ineptitude of our front 7 than it does to Taylor's "production".

INTs are a decent measure, but even those are driven by the opportunities to make INTs. For many years, Champ Bailey had only 2 or 3 INTs per season because nobody threw at him. QBs went after Archuleta a lot more than they tested Taylor. Plus, a defensive line that gets to the QB can often force an ill-advised pass, increasing the opportunities for your safeties to intercept the ball. If you have a worthless pass rush, you can't expect that many INT opportunities.

Defensive player performance can't be easily measured by statistics. You really just have to watch the guys play. I saw Taylor taking bad angles at times last season. I also saw him having to cover for Archuleta's inept play, which Taylor deserves credit for. I saw Taylor make a handful of impact plays, ripping fumbles loose, a couple INTs, and several huge tackles (the Carolina game). And I also saw him fail to get on the same page in terms of communication with the rest of the secondary (Taylor may not be to blame here, that could have been the coaching staff's fault for all we know). Overall he had a good season but has some room for improvement.

Seconded. Good post.

Defensive rate stats are in their early stages. While these stats do measure what you want to know about a certain defender, the sample size is just too small to know anything conclusive.

Just for fun, here were some of the conclusions drawn from 2005 albiet in a small sample size:

-No corner defended the pass better in 2005 (in the entire league) than Shawn Springs.
-No corner defended the run better in 2005 than Carlos Rogers.
-Adam Archuleta (while in STL) allowed only 5 yards per play on plays he was involved in--a wonderful year for a safety.

As you can see, these numbers don't always stay consistent from year to year. One year's data is never conclusive. It will get more accurate with time though.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

-Adam Archuleta (while in STL) allowed only 5 yards per play on plays he was involved in--a wonderful year for a safety.

As you can see, these numbers don't always stay consistent from year to year. One year's data is never conclusive. It will get more accurate with time though.

That specific example shows how subjective those statistics are. Archuleta is traditionally a safety that plays close to the line for run support, so obviously his yards per play are going to be far lower than Ed Reed's, who generally floats around 10-15 yards off the line. And I imagine that plays where Archuleta was completely out of position or whiffed on a tackle aren't included as plays he was involved in, as far as that particular stat.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

That specific example shows how subjective those statistics are. Archuleta is traditionally a safety that plays close to the line for run support, so obviously his yards per play are going to be far lower than Ed Reed, who generally floats around, 10-15 yards off the line. And I'd imagine that plays where Archuleta was completely out of position or whiffed on a tackle aren't included as plays he was involved in, as far as that particular stat.

Well, they certainly would be considered in plays he was involved in.

But I would agree that Arch's numbers are probably skewed a tad by a tendency to attack the LOS. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I mean, no safety, Archuleta or otherwise, will line up in the box frequently enough to completely alter a seasons data. Just remember that these plays include passes, so he apparently was back more than enough times to stop most deep passes.

Now, if Arch was being used uniquely compared to every other safety in the NFL, then these stats would have little meaning for him.

While the 5 yard number is a big subjective, the point is that the data supports the notion that Arch was great in 2005, and does justify his signing here.

Sometimes, you get boned.

[12thMan]

To my point, the higher number of tackles, I feel, contributed to some of the lapses in coverage and so forth.

So when I speak of production, I consider that to be synonymous with "impact"...which sometimes can be measured by stats and sometimes it can't.

[Daseal]

Honestly, I feel Sean Taylor was trying to do too much. A lot of times if you see him in the picture it's him going after someone else's man. Don't get me wrong, he's made his share of mistakes. He's still learning and I think this could be a real big year for Taylor if Landry is ready to step in and be productive as a rookie.

[hooskins]

I dont know guys, I mean we have been talking about this stuff all last season and honestly I am kinda optimistic about next year.

Our D seems better. Have a similar core, plus few additions. GW seems to know he needs to tweak his great system or whatever. Even if DL isnt addressed I think we have a good chance of doing well.

Same offensive coordinator, more run. Remember end of last year, things were kinda gelling. JC's 2nd year and times for everyone to learn the system.I mean this is the first time in a while the offense has stayed the same. It pretty much stayed the same in 05 and look what happened. And honestly, our D cant get much worst.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I dont know guys, I mean we have been talking about this stuff all last season and honestly I am kinda optimistic about next year.

Our D seems better. Have a similar core, plus few additions. GW seems to know he needs to tweak his great system or whatever. Even if DL isnt addressed I think we have a good chance of doing well.

Same offensive coordinator, more run. Remember end of last year, things were kinda gelling. JC's 2nd year and times for everyone to learn the system.I mean this is the first time in a while the offense has stayed the same. It pretty much stayed the same in 05 and look what happened. And honestly, our D cant get much worst.

I tend to be kind of pessemistic, but I'm going to agree with you here. There are times when this we just suffer from paralysis by analysis (to use a horrible cliche). Are we really trashing Sean Taylor? He has problems getting out of position and trying to do too much, but I'd rather have him than most any other saftey in the league and I'm definitely not going to bash him here.