Has the team mailed it in? (If so, why?)

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I guess this is where we disagree then. I don't think with our current crop of WR/TE we can have an effective traditional passing game yet. We are still trying to move the ball and score and the current 'gimmick' offense is accomplishing that task. 9 games into his career, I don't think any damage has been done to his learning curve. If this is our entire offense at this point next year, I'll be saying the same things you are but I think it's a little early and with the injuries to Garçon and Davis, difficult to expect much from a traditional offense.

Agreed.

And I don't think RG3 is comfortable yet making all the reads. He'll get there in time, that's what the offseason is for. Right now the best way to use him is in this option/read scheme.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

This is my point, RG3 isn't Cam or Vick, he's got the ability in the passing game that's on par with Luck and will develop into a Brees/Rogers/S. Young type QB....if given the chance. I haven't been doing the DVR and going back over the games play-by-play or invested in the all-22, but the only time KS is opening up the offense is when we're behind and he has to.

I don't mind the RO every once in a while, but let RG3 work out of gun in a traditional NFL passing O more. Our WRs are good enough to get open vs. Zone and are good enough to beat press. Especially with MS throwing in the towel on the season, open the O up and let RG3 learn.

The one counter argument to running a more traditional offense, that btw is the only way to be an elite QB in pro football, is that our o line is too weak to protect consistently. We have a garbage player at RT and our interior over achieves but struggles against tough d lines.

But the lack of solid pass protection is just another indictment of the regime.

All that said I don't think we're avoiding a more traditional offense solely to protect RG3 from getting pancaked. From everything we've seen, this brain-trust cannot put together a traditional scheme that consistently generates points. We don't spread the field. We don't create mismatches. We don't see play-calling/play-design that exposes our opponents weaknesses from week to week, play to play. As I've said, this is among the worst coaching I've seen in pro football. It's really just a continuation of the Zorn era, but a cult of personality around Shanahan has kept the realists at bay up to this point anyway.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The one counter argument to running a more traditional offense, that btw is the only way to be an elite QB in pro football, is that our o line is too weak to protect consistently. We have a garbage player at RT and our interior over achieves but struggles against tough d lines.

But the lack of solid pass protection is just another indictment of the regime.

All that said I don't think we're avoiding a more traditional offense solely to protect RG3 from getting pancaked. From everything we've seen, this brain-trust cannot put together a traditional scheme that consistently generates points. We don't spread the field. We don't create mismatches. We don't see play-calling/play-design that exposes our opponents weaknesses from week to week, play to play. As I've said, this is among the worst coaching I've seen in pro football. It's really just a continuation of the Zorn era, but a cult of personality around Shanahan has kept the realists at bay up to this point anyway.

Whew, you are really Gloating today about this loss.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wait, really? Stunting his development? The guy has been UNIVERSALLY praised for his ability to this point in the passing game including reading defenses and making tough throws but he's being stunted in his development? While I will agree with you somewhat about the volume of read option that is our playbook, it's been damn effective, even against the top defenses we've faced.

If Garçon and Davis were both healthy, I think we'd see a slightly more traditional offense but dropping back and expecting Hankerson, Robinson and Paulsen to consistently win their matchups and develop a passing rhythm is a recipe for getting RG3 killed in the pocket.

If you notice in a lot of the passing plays we've got 3 guys in the back field and it's almost all playaction passes. No one is being fooled on play action when you're either behind or it's 3rd and long. No one is being fooled with a wr screen on 3rd and 12. No one is being fooled with QB sweeps in the red zone. Davis and Garcon hurt but again...can you name one WR that Andrew Luck is throwing to besides Reggie Wayne? Hank, Morgan and Robinson are healthy and should be able to get open against Carolina. Get Banks involved in the passing game as well.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

If you notice in a lot of the passing plays we've got 3 guys in the back field and it's almost all playaction passes. No one is being fooled on play action when you're either behind or it's 3rd and long. No one is being fooled with a wr screen on 3rd and 12. No one is being fooled with QB sweeps in the red zone. Davis and Garcon hurt but again...can you name one WR that Andrew Luck is throwing to besides Reggie Wayne? Hank, Morgan and Robinson are healthy and should be able to get open against Carolina. Get Banks involved in the passing game as well.

You keep saying that but Donnie Avery isn't exactly some unknown scrub, and they added some nice weapons this year in the draft at TE and WR too.

We need more out of our WRs no doubt. But there's no denying that when you lose your top WR and top TE, it's gonna hurt things a bit.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I won't say the players "mailed it in", but I will say they have lost confidence in the coaches and system. Also, our culture is one where failure/losing are acceptable. For example, penalties, dropped balls, missed assignments....nothing happens to any of these guys, no accountability. How do you enforce accountability when the OC (who has been bad for 3yrs.) has no concern for his job security?

Enough is enough. If I'm Snyder, I can get the same results for a whole hell of a lot less than $ 7M / yr.

On top of all this, the Shannys are stunting RG3's development. This gimmickly college read option BS isn't developing RG3 into a Brees or A. Rodgers type QB. RG3 is extremely bright and accurate, stop holding the young man back and let him play the NFL game....will his Comp % drop, yes. Will he be far better long term, absolutely.

The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.

[Swarley]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.

Brave does not equal right though.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The best post I've read in a long time...especially the last paragraph. I think you're the first one to say it plainly. Lonely are the brave.

Thanks GOAT, you've been banging the drum quite effectively too.

It's not a mater of being right or wrong, we just want to see an improved product...and outside of Gibbs in 2005 & 2007, we haven't seen it in 20 years. We see glimpses, try to be optimistic, gain hope, only to have those hopes dashed by this time every year. Why should Snyder spend $ 7M / yr. for piss-poor results. I'll say it with 100% confidence, if Snyder made me HC, I would do no worse and for a hell of alot cheaper than what's going on now.

You are what you're record says you are.....and Shanny's ain't very good.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Thanks GOAT, you've been banging the drum quite effectively too.

It's not a mater of being right or wrong, we just want to see an improved product...and outside of Gibbs in 2005 & 2007, we haven't seen it in 20 years. We see glimpses, try to be optimistic, gain hope, only to have those hopes dashed by this time every year. Why should Snyder spend $ 7M / yr. for piss-poor results. I'll say it with 100% confidence, if Snyder made me HC, I would do no worse and for a hell of alot cheaper than what's going on now.

You are what you're record says you are.....and Shanny's ain't very good.

Word. I think all of Redskins nation wanted Mike and his regime to succeed, and even at the beginning of this season I had the highest hopes we'd see improvement.

Not to nitpick but I'm not The GOAT (as in greatest of all time), I'm The Goat because way back in college friends called me goat because I ate everything in sight lol

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Not to nitpick but I'm not The GOAT (as in greatest of all time), I'm The Goat because way back in college friends called me goat because I ate everything in sight lol

You really do learn something new every day...........

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Its just as simple as this ^^^^^^^^^^^

Why the heck is anyone in here thinking we should be winning right now? RG3? give me a break! He is only part of the puzzle. Gotta have something to build around, now we do.

Sorry bro's, going to have to sit tight a while longer. Next year, "if" the draft and FA is executed optimally, and "if" we get our gems off IR, we will see a way different team.

It's NOT the coaching. It's years of mistakes by past regimes that will take time to sort out. Year 4-5 for Shanny.

Your saying we don't have talent and I agree but who's fault is that? Mike has been here three years now it's his fault

[44ever]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Your saying we don't have talent and I agree but who's fault is that? Mike has been here three years now it's his fault

Unfortunately, but not surprisingly to any long time Skins fan, most of the talent we do have are injured. We just cant seem to get anything going no matter who is coach or what the roster looks like.

Bad luck? The curse? Coincidence? I don't know. The only variable left is the constant change in personnel across the board. How many Coaches, QB's, ect. is it gonna take?

At this point, the only thing we have not tried is staying put as far as (FO, Coaching, Staff) We need to see this thru 5 years. Or we can just keep this BS going on forever...

[REDSKINS4ever]

Dan Snyder's last football decision was to get rid of Cerratto and hire Bruce Allen who hired Mike Shanahan and who has the power to fire Mike Shanahan. But Bruce Allen won't do it. Allen is the one who fired Zorn after Zorn went 12-20. Now Shanahan has won 24 games and has lost 27. But I doubt if Bruce Allen fires him.

[NC_Skins]

I don't think anybody is mailing it in, but it's obvious the defensive players either don't believe in the system (haslett doesn't so not sure why they would) or just simply that terrible. Don't think they've been the same since Cruz put that dagger in their hearts.

[Sonny9TD]

Just read where the Redskins had homecoming celebration and homecoming written on the programs at the stadium. The Panthers were pizzed and highly motivated said one Panther player