Bill B Presents TMC's Pick the Position Poll

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah. If Grilliams took the reins off, he'd have a lot more. Carter's gotten near the QB on lots of occasions. If our secondary was worth a crap and could give him a split second more time, he'd probably have 8 right now. But our secondary blows and lets QBs throw at will; they don't hesitate to unload and consequently Carter just misses.

Plus, we're not in too many 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs this year. We haven't been great against the run, so the DEs aren't getting to pin their ears back in obvious pass rushing situations.

Sack numbers are an incredibly misleading way to look at DE production.

You're telling me that Gregg Williams has deliberately held the reins on Carter and is not allowing him to go after the quarterback? So then, the plummet in defensive rankings is all by design?

One could defend Andre Carter by demanding that the secondary step it up and blanket everyone like they're supposed to.

One could defend the secondary by demanding that the defensive line get the quarterback sooner. Neither positions are doing their job.

I'm not buying into the notion that Williams is somehow holding Carter back in pass rushing situations. He only averaged 4.5 sacks a year in San Fransisco before being moved to linebacker. So his "mad pass rushing skills" apparently failed him there too, -- unless of course, the 49ers had exactly the same philosophy that Gregg Williams has. I find that difficult to believe. Andre Carter is yet another hideous miscalculation in scouting personnel by this front office.

[FRPLG]

Can we please stop with the fantasy of McIntosh playing MLB?

He isn't an MLB and hasn't practiced there at all. Plus he couldn't master the scheme enough to even play in base package until week 13. He isn't going to suddenly master the scheme and be able to QB it. Plus he is a fit at OLB. His talent is wasted at MLB. It is not going to happen. MLB and OLB are not really that similar a position. He could be expected to switch to safety almost as easily as to MLB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You're telling me that Gregg Williams has deliberately held the reins on Carter and is not allowing him to go after the quarterback? So then, the plummet in defensive rankings is all by design?

One could defend Andre Carter by demanding that the secondary step it up and blanket everyone like they're supposed to.

One could defend the secondary by demanding that the defensive line get the quarterback sooner. Neither positions are doing their job.

I'm not buying into the notion that Williams is somehow holding Carter back in pass rushing situations. He only averaged 4.5 sacks a year in San Fransisco before being moved to linebacker. So his "mad pass rushing skills" apparently failed him there too, -- unless of course, the 49ers had exactly the same philosophy that Gregg Williams has. I find that difficult to believe. Andre Carter is yet another hideous miscalculation in scouting personnel by this front office.

I think Williams teaches our line to engage the blocker. This way, if a ballcarrier comes through, said player can make the tackle. Carter's best move is the speed move. So I would agree with your 'what were they thinking' assessment of the signing (for this system at least), but going foward I think the D Line can be built AROUND Carter as opposed to in spite of him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Can we please stop with the fantasy of McIntosh playing MLB?

He isn't an MLB and hasn't practiced there at all. Plus he couldn't master the scheme enough to even play in base package until week 13. He isn't going to suddenly master the scheme and be able to QB it. Plus he is a fit at OLB. His talent is wasted at MLB. It is not going to happen. MLB and OLB are not really that similar a position. He could be expected to switch to safety almost as easily as to MLB.

I'd like to bring in London Fletcher on a 2 year, low signing bonus type of deal, and insert him in the middle right away. Rocky can compete with Lemar for PT at the WLB.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You're telling me that Gregg Williams has deliberately held the reins on Carter and is not allowing him to go after the quarterback? So then, the plummet in defensive rankings is all by design?

I think this "reined in" philosophy has a lot less to do with Williams and more to do with Greg Blache who once said that sacks don't matter

"In 2003, Dick Jauron disciple Greg Blache told the media that "sacks don't matter" in the scheme of his defense, and his players backed up his words, finishing with a franchise-low 18."

Chicago Bears Pass Rush Revival

[MTK]

Williams reportedly held the reins too tight on the defensive line last year and when he finally let them loose that's when we saw guys like Daniels getting good pressure.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You're telling me that Gregg Williams has deliberately held the reins on Carter and is not allowing him to go after the quarterback? So then, the plummet in defensive rankings is all by design?

One could defend Andre Carter by demanding that the secondary step it up and blanket everyone like they're supposed to.

One could defend the secondary by demanding that the defensive line get the quarterback sooner. Neither positions are doing their job.

I'm not buying into the notion that Williams is somehow holding Carter back in pass rushing situations. He only averaged 4.5 sacks a year in San Fransisco before being moved to linebacker. So his "mad pass rushing skills" apparently failed him there too, -- unless of course, the 49ers had exactly the same philosophy that Gregg Williams has. I find that difficult to believe. Andre Carter is yet another hideous miscalculation in scouting personnel by this front office.

What's hard to understand here? Williams and Blache don't let the ends chase the QB up the field on every down. They ask them to play gap control on 1st and 10 and 2nd and mediums/shorts. Take a look at the D next time, you don't see Carter and Daniels running upfield like crazy right off the snap unless it's an obvious passing situation. They kind of keep themselves in front of the tackle they're going against, that way they're able to work off the block and get to a RB coming through either gap. With all the screens being called in the league these days, having your ends just chase the QB all day is a bad idea. Your ends constantly get drawn up the field, the ball goes over their heads, and suddenly the defense has lost containment and the screen goes for a big gainer. Or on draw plays to an RB, same thing, the ends come up the field and suddenly the defense is vulnerable on the edges.

They're not asked to chase down the QB with abandon like some ends around the league are. If Freeney were a Redskin, you'd be wondering what the hell is wrong with him when he only put up 8 sacks.

In a Gregg Williams defense, you know a DE is having success by looking at his tackle numbers, not by looking at his sacks. If a DE is controlling his gaps then he'll make plenty of tackles, keeping RBs from gaining more than two yards, and forcing the defense into second and long.

If we had a secondary, we'd be able to blitz to get our sacks. We need CB SS and DT, our ends are more than adequate.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

What's hard to understand here? Williams and Blache don't let the ends chase the QB up the field on every down. They ask them to play gap control on 1st and 10 and 2nd and mediums/shorts. Take a look at the D next time, you don't see Carter and Daniels running upfield like crazy right off the snap unless it's an obvious passing situation. They kind of keep themselves in front of the tackle they're going against, that way they're able to work off the block and get to a RB coming through either gap. With all the screens being called in the league these days, having your ends just chase the QB all day is a bad idea. Your ends constantly get drawn up the field, the ball goes over their heads, and suddenly the defense has lost containment and the screen goes for a big gainer. Or on draw plays to an RB, same thing, the ends come up the field and suddenly the defense is vulnerable on the edges.

They're not asked to chase down the QB with abandon like some ends around the league are. If Freeney were a Redskin, you'd be wondering what the hell is wrong with him when he only put up 8 sacks.

In a Gregg Williams defense, you know a DE is having success by looking at his tackle numbers, not by looking at his sacks. If a DE is controlling his gaps then he'll make plenty of tackles, keeping RBs from gaining more than two yards, and forcing the defense into second and long.

If we had a secondary, we'd be able to blitz to get our sacks. We need CB SS and DT, our ends are more than adequate.

nice post

[Schneed10]

You can't just cut a DE loose in today's NFL. Just like an overpursuing LB corps is susceptible to cutbacks, pure pass rushing DEs are susceptible to screens and draws. You have to pick your spots to turn the DEs loose, like 3rd and long.

Playing the run well is more important than sacking the QB. Your DEs will get their sacks if you can keep the offense in 3rd and longs all day. See Phillip Daniels in 2005 with 8 sacks. He's pretty average from a speed rushing standpoint, and managed to drum up eight of them.

Now if we can stop the run better on 1st down, we'll have more 3rd and longs. That means more opportunities to release the hounds from the DE spot, and that leads to more sacks.

Carter was disappointing in stopping the run earlier this season, but he has caught on nicely. At no point has he had the opportunities to chase the QB like Dwight Freeney does, so expecting huge sack numbers from him isn't really fair.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

nice post

Thank you.

My whole thing here is that Gregg Williams' system is still pure genius. It has worked for so many years, and still will. Perhaps he got cocky and let the wrong players get away (Ryan Clark), and injuries hurt him in his secondary. But the system will still work if he can get another good safety who communicate well with Taylor, if he can get a run stopping force in the middle of the defensive line, and if he can get the CB play he needs.

Maybe that CB play comes from Springs next year, or maybe we sign/draft somebody, I dunno. But with those three things, GW will have us back on top. We don't need ends and we don't need LBs; at first glance the stats tell you that the ends and LBs are having down years. But that's more due to the weakness at other positions spilling over and affecting their play. It's still a team sport, even the great Marcus Washington is going to have a down year when he doesn't have DTs keeping linemen and fullbacks away from him.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Thank you.

My whole thing here is that Gregg Williams' system is still pure genius. It has worked for so many years, and still will. Perhaps he got cocky and let the wrong players get away (Ryan Clark), and injuries hurt him in his secondary. But the system will still work if he can get another good safety who communicate well with Taylor, if he can get a run stopping force in the middle of the defensive line, and if he can get the CB play he needs.

Maybe that CB play comes from Springs next year, or maybe we sign/draft somebody, I dunno. But with those three things, GW will have us back on top. We don't need ends and we don't need LBs; at first glance the stats tell you that the ends and LBs are having down years. But that's more due to the weakness at other positions spilling over and affecting their play. It's still a team sport, even the great Marcus Washington is going to have a down year when he doesn't have DTs keeping linemen and fullbacks away from him.

This season has to be a bit of a wake up call for GW, and that's probably not a bad thing. I think he definitely was getting full of himself. He had taken a squad of mostly castoffs and unknowns and turned them into one of the league's best defenses. Now it's time for him to re-evaluate things and now that his ego has been taken down a notch hopefully he can get back to what helped him build great defenses in the past.

[onlydarksets]

I was torn between S and CB. Really, anything to help lock down our secondary would be great. Schneed's great posts really clarify why our secondary needs to be solid - we need the CB blitz packages. Maybe that means CB is more important. Anyway, that's what I voted for.

[The Zimmermans]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Thank you.

My whole thing here is that Gregg Williams' system is still pure genius. It has worked for so many years, and still will. Perhaps he got cocky and let the wrong players get away (Ryan Clark), and injuries hurt him in his secondary. But the system will still work if he can get another good safety who communicate well with Taylor, if he can get a run stopping force in the middle of the defensive line, and if he can get the CB play he needs.

Maybe that CB play comes from Springs next year, or maybe we sign/draft somebody, I dunno. But with those three things, GW will have us back on top. We don't need ends and we don't need LBs; at first glance the stats tell you that the ends and LBs are having down years. But that's more due to the weakness at other positions spilling over and affecting their play. It's still a team sport, even the great Marcus Washington is going to have a down year when he doesn't have DTs keeping linemen and fullbacks away from him.

You don't think that drafting a MLB in the top ten will help us???? Marshal is not getting the tackles that he needs to. We need a big fast linebacker that can shed blocks and fill those gaps that the DT's create. You stop the run with your LB's filling the holes. Our run D is miserable, but other teams are not always picking up on that. The tampa game was a great illustration of our struggles.

[Citizens for 81]

Originally Posted by The Zimmermans

You don't think that drafting a MLB in the top ten will help us???? Marshal is not getting the tackles that he needs to. We need a big fast linebacker that can shed blocks and fill those gaps that the DT's create. You stop the run with your LB's filling the holes. Our run D is miserable, but other teams are not always picking up on that. The tampa game was a great illustration of our struggles.

There are no MLBs in the top 10 in this year's draft.

[MTK]

We have more pressing needs than MLB.