Different Season, Same Trap

[14WOODS]

As long as we sweep the cowgirls we could go 2-14 and I would be happy.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?

Excellent, excellent points here. Still I'm excited because I think the offense should be much funner to watch, even if it doesn't translate into the pile of wins

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?

The Excitement is about the fact that ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN In this league.

We're all fans, and trying to be optimistic. We all know the squads shortcomings, all too well. But that doesn't mean we have to be pessimistic, or that we will be a spitten image of last season. Players improve, decline, get better with age, get worse with age. FA's come in and rewrite the script, or fall off the map. Rookies come in this league and have probowl seasons, or get burnt on a regular basis by veterans. You never know, but its our obligation as fans of this great franchise, to never lose hope, and to wish for the best for our redskins. I just hate it when people like you call us unrealistic, or try to shoot everyones hopes down. There is a reason why alot of us spend 30 minutes a day at the redskins site or posting here, DURING THE NFL OFFSEASON for christs sake. Let us have our fun and dream about what is to come for our squad.

We don't need naysayers calling all of us unintelligent or ridiculous for being fans.

[RememberRFK]

Speaking for myself, I am frustrated about our team's performance the last decade. I agree, we must stay positive and be ready for what should be a more promising season ahead. If other fans frustration shows, heck, even mine, let us just tollerate it and move on. I just cannot see our team going through all this only to be 4 & 12 again. Tell me it ain't so!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?

Eagles pass blocking was pretty bad too. And where's the steep learning curve? He's going to get most of the concepts of the system, probably mostly just terminology differences.

He might not be the best QB in the conference, maybe not the division, but I don't think that he'll stink it up like you make it seem.

How many of the games could be against teams with 4 wins or less? 3? Well we also were very close in games vs 1 team with 11 wins and 2 with 13. I truly believe that when Mike Shanahan said he thought that he could get more out of some of our players than what we have seen from them, he really thinks that and that he can.

Do I think that we're going to the big game? Nah. Do I think that we're worse off with McNabb? Hell no. We'll figure out the line issues or at least use enough pocket movements to help counter the issues, something that we RARELY did in the past few years. Can't fix it all in one year, you can believe that he'll be keeping that line building continuous.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Eagles pass blocking was pretty bad too. And where's the steep learning curve? He's going to get most of the concepts of the system, probably mostly just terminology differences.

Do I think that we're going to the big game? Nah. Do I think that we're worse off with McNabb? Hell no. We'll figure out the line issues or at least use enough pocket movements to help counter the issues, something that we RARELY did in the past few years. Can't fix it all in one year, you can believe that he'll be keeping that line building continuous.

McNabb was bred in the eagles system by Reid, from rookie to Pro Bowl player. All the sudden he plays for a completely new team and coach and it's just the terminology he needs to overcome...doubtful. The last two years with the eagles, Andy Reid was starting to pass drastically more than run so how does that line up with Shanahan's projected run first offense?

That brings up another point...how do you run successfully without an above average line? It all comes back to what improvements can be done to our biggest liability the past two, if not three, seasons.

We still need 4 to 5 solid offensive linemen before we can become competitive. We won't get half of that amount this year so how will we get the rest next?


I'm really not trying to be a downer it's just the story of the Skins chances this season doesn't really hold water with all these holes.

[horse]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

A lot of those close win/loss games came against teams that didn't end the year with more than 4 wins.

The only way you can truly be excited about this team and its prospects beyond this year is if you're a cowboy, giant or eagle fan. McNabb went to the Pro Bowl as an eagle, not as a Redskin. We know what he can do on the eagles roster but how does that translate to ours?

I don't know why many Skins fans are transferring 100% of his talents and output immediately to our team. We're NOT getting the eagles McNabb, we're getting a McNabb that will play for the Redskins, meaning he will go through a steep learning curve that will be hindered due to our gross lack of offensive linemen help.

Even if we brought in 3 time SB champion, Tom Brady, we wouldn't have the scheme that he was implementing in NE. McNabb's output is going to be drastically different on the Skins. You can say his output will increase coming to a new team but from the looks of our OL and the 3 gaping holes just on our starting line I'd say it's doubtful.


For all those seeing the draft as the answer to our OL problems remember that Okung or any other rookie LT will simply be neutralizing the loss of Chris Samuels. If you remember the start of '09 our OL still sucked when Samuels was able bodied and starting. Now put a standout rookie there and still keep 2 gaping holes on the line and tell me what are McNabb's prospects for this year?

So....what's all the excitement about again?

We're excited because so many times having a proven QB is the difference between winning and losing especially the close games.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by horse

Remember this team lost like 6 gms or something by like 6 pts or less, this could be a quick turnaround and all the most consistently good team usually have a solid QB and this is our first one since brad johnson, Mcnabb is coming off a probowl year so damn right I'm excited!

I wouldn't bet our future success based of close games played. Close games are nothing new for the Redskins. In fact if it were a indicator of getting closer to a winning season then we would have won a long time ago.

Since our SB days, We've become a team that plays up to but just under our opponents ability.

Take a look at this, I think you'll be suprised by just how many games were decided by 7 points or less. You decide.

Out of the 112 Games we played between 2000 and 2007, approx. 70 games were decided by 7 points or less. Thats nearly 70%.

Opponent........................Date.............W/L...Score.......Point/Diff
Carolina Panthers.............9/3/2000.......Win 20 - 17.....3
Detroit Lions....................9/10/2000.... Loss 10 - 15.....5
Dallas Cowboys................9/18/2000.... Loss 21 - 27.....6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers .....10/1/2000.... Win 20 - 17.....3
Philadelphia Eagles...........10/8/2000..... Win 17 - 14.....3
Baltimore Ravens.............10/15/2000.... Win 10 - 3.......7
Tennessee Titans .............10/30/2000....Loss 21 - 27.....6
Arizona Cardinals..............11/5/2000.....Loss 15 - 16.....1
Philadelphia Eagles...........11/26/2000.... Loss 20 - 23.....3
New York Giants..............12/3/2000.......Loss 7 - 9........2
Dallas Cowboys...............10/15/2001.....Loss 7 - 9........2
Carolina Panthers ............10/21/2001.... Win 17 - 14.....3
Denver Broncos...............11/18/2001.... Win 17 - 10.....7
Dallas Cowboys...............12/2/2001.......Loss 14 - 20.....6
Chicago Bears.................12/23/2001.... Loss 15 - 20.....5
Arizona Cardinals ............1/6/2002........Win 20 - 17.....3
Indianapolis Colts ............10/27/2002.....Win 26 - 21.....5
New York Giants..............11/17/2002.....Loss 17 - 19.....3
St. Louis Rams................11/24/2002.....Win 20 - 17.....3
Dallas Cowboys...............11/28/2002.....Loss 20 - 27.....7
New York Giants..............12/8/2002......Loss 21 - 27.....6
Dallas Cowboys...............12/29/2002....Win 20 - 14.....6
New York Jets.................9/4/2003.......Win 16 - 13.....3
Atlanta Falcons................9/14/2003.....Win 33 - 31.....2
New York Giants..............9/21/2003.....Loss 21 - 24.....3
New England Patriots.......9/28/2003......Win 20 - 17.....3
Philadelphia Eagles..........10/5/2003......Loss 25 - 27.....2
Dallas Cowboys..............11/2/2003.......Loss 14 - 21.....7
Seattle Seahawks ............11/9/2003......Win 27 - 20.....7
Carolina Panthers............11/16/2003.....Loss 17 - 20....3
Miami Dolphins...............11/23/2003.....Loss 23 - 24....1
New Orleans Saints.........11/30/2003.....Loss 20 - 24....4
Chicago Bears................12/21/2003.....Loss 24 - 27.....3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers ...9/12/2004.......Win 16 - 10.....6
New York Giants............9/19/2004........Loss 14 - 20.....6
Dallas Cowboys.............9/27/2004........Loss 17 - 21.....4
Cleveland Browns ..........10/3/2004........Loss 17 - 13....4
Baltimore Ravens ...........10/10/2004......Loss 10 - 17....7
Chicago Bears...............10/17/2004.......Win 13 - 10....3
Detroit Lions.................11/7/2004........Win 17 - 10.....7
Cincinnati Bengals..........11/14/2004......Loss 10 - 17....7
Philadelphia Eagles........12/12/2004.......Loss 14 - 17....3
Dallas Cowboys.............12/26/2004.......Loss 10 - 13....3
Minnesota Vikings..........1/2/2005..........Win 21 - 18....3
Chicago Bears...............9/11/2005 ........Win 9 - 7.......2
Dallas Cowboys.............9/19/2005........ Win 14 - 13.....1
Seattle Seahawks ..........10/2/2005........ Win 20 - 17.....3
Denver Broncos.............10/9/2005 ........Loss 19 - 21.....2
Kansas City Chiefs.........10/16/2005.......Loss 21 - 28.....7
Philadelphia Eagles........11/6/2005........ Win 17 - 10.....7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers..11/13/2005........Loss 35 - 36.....1
Oakland Raiders...........11/20/2005........Loss 13 - 16.....1
San Diego Chargers......11/27/2005 ........Loss 17 - 23.....6
Arizona Cardinals .........12/11/2005........Win 17 - 13.....4
Jacksonville Jaguars.......10/1/2006 ........Win 36 - 30.....6
Tennessee Titans...........10/15/2006.......Loss 22 - 25.....3
Dallas Cowboys.............11/5/2006 ........Win 22 - 19.....3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers...11/19/2006......Loss 17 - 20.....3
Carolina Panthers ..........11/26/2006......Win 17 - 13.....4
Philadelphia Eagles.........12/10/2006......Loss 19 - 21.....2
New Orleans Saints.........12/17/2006.....Win 16 - 10.....6
St. Louis Rams...............12/24/2006.....Loss 31 - 37.....6
New York Giants.............12/30/2006.....Loss 28 - 34.....6
Miami Dolphins...............9/9/2007 .......Win 16 - 13.....3
New York Giants.............9/23/2007......Loss 17 - 24.....7
Green Bay Packers..........10/14/2007....Loss 14 - 17.....3
Arizona Cardinals............10/21/2007.....Win 21 - 19.....2
New York Jets................11/4/2007.......Win 23 - 20.....3
Dallas Cowboys..............11/18/2007......Loss 23 - 28.....5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers....11/25/2007......Loss 13 - 19.....5
Buffalo Bills,..................12/2/2007........Loss 16 - 17.....1

RedskinsDB.com: The Complete Washington Redskins Game History Database

[RememberRFK]

So, you are saying because of THOSE statistics, we can expect more of the same?

[44ever]

Originally Posted by RememberRFK

So, you are saying because of THOSE statistics, we can expect more of the same?

No, not at all. I'm saying solely based on those numbers, nothing can be predicted. I'm also excited about the new season. But it has NOTHING to do with the past. That would be my point if I was trying to make one.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by RememberRFK

So, you are saying because of THOSE statistics, we can expect more of the same?

If anything, because of those stats, the major upgrade in front office, coaching and QB (and hopefully O-line) should make it very easy to become an elite NFL team quickly.

Zorn wasn't exactly great late in games. (cue the swinging gate play clip)

Even before him, name a Redskins QB since 2000 as capable as McNabb. Yes, even I can concede Campbell is not as good.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 44ever

I wouldn't bet our future success based of close games played. Close games are nothing new for the Redskins. In fact if it were a indicator of getting closer to a winning season then we would have won a long time ago.

Since our SB days, We've become a team that plays up to but just under our opponents ability.

Take a look at this, I think you'll be suprised by just how many games were decided by 7 points or less. You decide.

Out of the 112 Games we played between 2000 and 2007, approx. 70 games were decided by 7 points or less. Thats nearly 70%.

Opponent........................Date.............W/L...Score.......Point/Diff
Carolina Panthers.............9/3/2000.......Win 20 - 17.....3
Detroit Lions....................9/10/2000.... Loss 10 - 15.....5
Dallas Cowboys................9/18/2000.... Loss 21 - 27.....6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers .....10/1/2000.... Win 20 - 17.....3
Philadelphia Eagles...........10/8/2000..... Win 17 - 14.....3
Baltimore Ravens.............10/15/2000.... Win 10 - 3.......7
Tennessee Titans .............10/30/2000....Loss 21 - 27.....6
Arizona Cardinals..............11/5/2000.....Loss 15 - 16.....1
Philadelphia Eagles...........11/26/2000.... Loss 20 - 23.....3
New York Giants..............12/3/2000.......Loss 7 - 9........2
Dallas Cowboys...............10/15/2001.....Loss 7 - 9........2
Carolina Panthers ............10/21/2001.... Win 17 - 14.....3
Denver Broncos...............11/18/2001.... Win 17 - 10.....7
Dallas Cowboys...............12/2/2001.......Loss 14 - 20.....6
Chicago Bears.................12/23/2001.... Loss 15 - 20.....5
Arizona Cardinals ............1/6/2002........Win 20 - 17.....3
Indianapolis Colts ............10/27/2002.....Win 26 - 21.....5
New York Giants..............11/17/2002.....Loss 17 - 19.....3
St. Louis Rams................11/24/2002.....Win 20 - 17.....3
Dallas Cowboys...............11/28/2002.....Loss 20 - 27.....7
New York Giants..............12/8/2002......Loss 21 - 27.....6
Dallas Cowboys...............12/29/2002....Win 20 - 14.....6
New York Jets.................9/4/2003.......Win 16 - 13.....3
Atlanta Falcons................9/14/2003.....Win 33 - 31.....2
New York Giants..............9/21/2003.....Loss 21 - 24.....3
New England Patriots.......9/28/2003......Win 20 - 17.....3
Philadelphia Eagles..........10/5/2003......Loss 25 - 27.....2
Dallas Cowboys..............11/2/2003.......Loss 14 - 21.....7
Seattle Seahawks ............11/9/2003......Win 27 - 20.....7
Carolina Panthers............11/16/2003.....Loss 17 - 20....3
Miami Dolphins...............11/23/2003.....Loss 23 - 24....1
New Orleans Saints.........11/30/2003.....Loss 20 - 24....4
Chicago Bears................12/21/2003.....Loss 24 - 27.....3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers ...9/12/2004.......Win 16 - 10.....6
New York Giants............9/19/2004........Loss 14 - 20.....6
Dallas Cowboys.............9/27/2004........Loss 17 - 21.....4
Cleveland Browns ..........10/3/2004........Loss 17 - 13....4
Baltimore Ravens ...........10/10/2004......Loss 10 - 17....7
Chicago Bears...............10/17/2004.......Win 13 - 10....3
Detroit Lions.................11/7/2004........Win 17 - 10.....7
Cincinnati Bengals..........11/14/2004......Loss 10 - 17....7
Philadelphia Eagles........12/12/2004.......Loss 14 - 17....3
Dallas Cowboys.............12/26/2004.......Loss 10 - 13....3
Minnesota Vikings..........1/2/2005..........Win 21 - 18....3
Chicago Bears...............9/11/2005 ........Win 9 - 7.......2
Dallas Cowboys.............9/19/2005........ Win 14 - 13.....1
Seattle Seahawks ..........10/2/2005........ Win 20 - 17.....3
Denver Broncos.............10/9/2005 ........Loss 19 - 21.....2
Kansas City Chiefs.........10/16/2005.......Loss 21 - 28.....7
Philadelphia Eagles........11/6/2005........ Win 17 - 10.....7
Tampa Bay Buccaneers..11/13/2005........Loss 35 - 36.....1
Oakland Raiders...........11/20/2005........Loss 13 - 16.....1
San Diego Chargers......11/27/2005 ........Loss 17 - 23.....6
Arizona Cardinals .........12/11/2005........Win 17 - 13.....4
Jacksonville Jaguars.......10/1/2006 ........Win 36 - 30.....6
Tennessee Titans...........10/15/2006.......Loss 22 - 25.....3
Dallas Cowboys.............11/5/2006 ........Win 22 - 19.....3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers...11/19/2006......Loss 17 - 20.....3
Carolina Panthers ..........11/26/2006......Win 17 - 13.....4
Philadelphia Eagles.........12/10/2006......Loss 19 - 21.....2
New Orleans Saints.........12/17/2006.....Win 16 - 10.....6
St. Louis Rams...............12/24/2006.....Loss 31 - 37.....6
New York Giants.............12/30/2006.....Loss 28 - 34.....6
Miami Dolphins...............9/9/2007 .......Win 16 - 13.....3
New York Giants.............9/23/2007......Loss 17 - 24.....7
Green Bay Packers..........10/14/2007....Loss 14 - 17.....3
Arizona Cardinals............10/21/2007.....Win 21 - 19.....2
New York Jets................11/4/2007.......Win 23 - 20.....3
Dallas Cowboys..............11/18/2007......Loss 23 - 28.....5
Tampa Bay Buccaneers....11/25/2007......Loss 13 - 19.....5
Buffalo Bills,..................12/2/2007........Loss 16 - 17.....1

RedskinsDB.com: The Complete Washington Redskins Game History Database

My research is ashamed to be in the same thread as your research. Nicely done.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

My research is ashamed to be in the same thread as your research. Nicely done.

Thanks for the kind complement Paintrain. But, I believe your posts are much more intelligent and informative.

[The Goat]

Nice thread.

When I try to break the team into units it's very hard to see us above .500.

While our offense is getting lots of attention because of the Shanahans and McNabb, my bet is our defense will be the bigger story once the season starts. We're woefully short on talent to fill out the 3-4 scheme. Even if we find a way to add significant "older" talent as cuts happen is there any reason to believe Haslett can build a dominant unit? Haslett's group has been underwhelming almost everywhere he's worked.

Best case scenario I see then is we get Okung in the draft and have a few nice surprises elsewhere on offense. Somebody wins RG w/ force. We luck out w/ an older RT to play instead of Heyer. Thomas makes a huge leap forward. (My assumption already is Fred Davis will be a stud this year.) The RB rotation stays healthy.

I think all that translates into an 8-8 season after which Shanny goes looking for different answers defensively. If things don't go splendidly on offense like I assume then it's probably a 4-12 or 5-11 year.

[RememberRFK]

I have no crystal ball but I do not see that happening or at least I hope you are wrong. I don't know much but I do know this. New regime, new players, new attitude... 4 and 12 ?? Can't be. Wish my thoughts luck!