Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread

[OmahaRedskins]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

We don't know that for a second. It's far from a given. In fact i would say right now it is 50 / 50.

It's closer to 90/10. The 10% is if McVay gets a HC job and he trades fro KC. Then Gruden walks or is canned next year, the whole staff is walked and we start over. No QB, no coach, and no GM.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

We don't know that for a second. It's far from a given. In fact i would say right now it is 50 / 50.

50/50? Damn I lost the bet. I had you pegged for 5/95. I guess I read it all wrong.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

We don't know that for a second. It's far from a given. In fact i would say right now it is 50 / 50.

Why persist in the state of mind that KC will not be back. The Skins have said on the record they will franchise him again. After 2 winning seasons with multiple franchise records set the only question is the total guaranteed long term money. It will be a 6 year contract, it will be a total value around 135million. My guess is 62million guaranteed with a team option in the 6th year. His cap hit this year will be around 20 million.

For anything else to happen the Skins would have to have fired SM and that's not happening.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[FREE-AG3NT]

I said I want him back.. But nobody mentions a number, that they think he's worth.. I want him to stay but not for top 5 money over 20 a year.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by FREE-AG3NT

I said I want him back.. But nobody mentions a number, that they think he's worth.. I want him to stay but not for top 5 money over 20 a year.

I don't think he should get 25 mil a year but he does have the leverage. His leverage is "if I walk, you got nothing." Our leverage is "well we need to build a good team, if we give you all the money we are screwed."

TL;DR: 24 mil a year is my max, that would be manageable. 22-23 would be ideal but I don't see him settling for that. Keep in mind we always have the ability to renegotiate, and we do that every year with big money players. 25 and up would be "greatest thing since sliced bread" money but after the crappers against NYG and Carolina I think we can use that against him.

If Kirk is the good guy we believe he is, and recognizes that he needs a good team around him to be effective, then maybe he settles for 22/23. I'm putting 20% odds on that though, because his agent will be handling negotiations and so far his statements don't indicate he will settle for less in exchange for the good of the team. We can always hope though.

The final thing that people forget when discussing numbers is percentage of the salary cap. Schneed would be my go-to guy on this, but the number isn't important, what is important is what percentage of the salary cap it will be. There is a quote from Kirk floating around the internet (I have searched but I can't find it, it is from his season ending interview last week) where the important # is 14%. With a projected cap of $168 mil (taken from Schneed's salary cap thread) 14% of that projects to be $23.52 mil. If that average annual value comes true, I would be satisfied with that as it would be in similar range to the going rate for a decent qb in this league. Andrew Luck's contract that he signed after a down season in 2015 is for 6 years, 140 mil, with 87 million guaranteed for injury and 47 mil guaranteed at signing. And the hilarious part is that apparently those were considered bad numbers by those who track these sort of things. The fact that Luck had a bad year after his huge deal also sucks for us, because the fact that Cousins had a better season than him means his agent might not be willing to settle for Andrew Luck money.

Final TL;DR: 24 a year hopefully, 22-23 would be nice but improbable. If Skins lowball him again, with an 18-20 mil/year offer that fans and possibly him would interpret as a sign of disrespect (let's face it, the man doesn't deserve Brock Osweiler money), then maybe it's time to be concerned. If he demands 25/year at the lowest and we concede then maybe we should be concerned that we can't build a good team around him. Hopefully both sides are willing to negotiate in good faith and we can get this shit over with. If not, he will get franchise tagged (we have no plan B, I don't value your opinion if you think Colt McCoy is a viable 16 game qb) and play the year on the tag again, while we hopefully think of a better plan B for next year.

[FREE-AG3NT]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan View Post
Letting him go for what? Nothing? Couldn't they work a deal with another club for the Redskins to sign him to a contract that would be acceptable to that club and then trade him to that club for a haul of draft picks? Outright cutting him is out of the question, IMO.

By the way, I'm guessing that the $22M that you say is not too much this year would have been too much in your mind last year. This current dilemma could have easily been avoided by the Redskins if they had signed him to a long-term deal last year. If the Skins franchise him again this year then the $24M cost to tag him will look cheap compared to what it would take to sign him the year after that. Plus there is no way to structure a one year franchise tag contract to reduce the cap hit for it. I think the Redskins screwed up by not signing him to a long-term deal last season and if they tag him again this year it will probably end up being an even worse salary cap screw up. Each time he is franchised, the Skins are digging themselves a deeper hole.


That all depends on what he wanted last year which was probably too much based on his small sample size I heard the Skins were willing to go 16-17million last year which seem fair to me then and even now, but he didn't want that. His comments after the game made me lose a lot of respect for him he was so indifferent when asked about the team. Then his next statement about getting as much as he can so it's fair to the other QBs in the NFL looking for their payday was the final straw. I almost don't care if he goes even though that's a scarier thought.

[MTK]

If SM doesn't believe in paying a QB I'm still trying to figure out why he gave KC $20m last year. Definitely would like to hear more on this.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

If SM doesn't believe in paying a QB I'm still trying to figure out why he gave KC $20m last year. Definitely would like to hear more on this.

Or $50m guaranteed to a top CB in Norman last year.

I cannot imagine the money number is the issue - it never has been under Snyder's ownership. imo, the Skins would sign him for $24-25m out the gate, but the contract language is where the two sides hit the rough spots, and that's on Bruce Allen to get those issues worked out.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by MTK

If SM doesn't believe in paying a QB I'm still trying to figure out why he gave KC $20m last year. Definitely would like to hear more on this.

In my opinion, as far as last year was concerned, they basically said "we really aren't sure about your ability, but we don't really have time to look for a replacement". Of course 2017 decision making is going to be very different. Kirk has proven to be an NFL starting QB. It comes down to money at this point. I wish we could give him between 21 and 23 million a year, but I don't think we will offer that. For some reason the number i have stuck in my head is 18 million a season for four seasons.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

In my opinion, as far as last year was concerned, they basically said "we really aren't sure about your ability, but we don't really have time to look for a replacement". Of course 2017 decision making is going to be very different. Kirk has proven to be an NFL starting QB. It comes down to money at this point. I wish we could give him between 21 and 23 million a year, but I don't think we will offer that. For some reason the number i have stuck in my head is 18 million a season for four seasons.

They paid 20Million last season by your own words saying Prove it. He proved his ability, so why would they say ok, now we will give you 18Million. That's not even a logical position.

Maybe they say ok, last year on a prove it deal we gave you the franchise tag number, this year we want to make it a long term deal so the average per year will be a little less then franchise tag value, but with 2 years franchise tag value guaranteed. That number would be 23Mill apy and 58Mill Guaranteed. That's the negotiating numbers right there. Anything less is a fan's creation, not the team's expectation.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

They paid 20Million last season by your own words saying Prove it. He proved his ability, so why would they say ok, now we will give you 18Million. That's not even a logical position.

Maybe they say ok, last year on a prove it deal we gave you the franchise tag number, this year we want to make it a long term deal so the average per year will be a little less then franchise tag value, but with 2 years franchise tag value guaranteed. That number would be 23Mill apy and 58Mill Guaranteed. That's the negotiating numbers right there. Anything less is a fan's creation, not the team's expectation.

i imagined there would be lots of incentives that he would have to reach to get his yearly number above 20 million (Throw for 4,000 yards, Throw 30 TD's, play in 90% of the snaps, start all 16 games, etc....)

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

i imagined there would be lots of incentives that he would have to reach to get his yearly number above 20 million (Throw for 4,000 yards, Throw 30 TD's, play in 90% of the snaps, start all 16 games, etc....)

I don't understand your position at all. They paid 20Million guaranteed, no incentives nothing. They are ready to pay 24Million guaranteed, no incentives nothing. KC is a top FA candidate if we don't sign him, Far better than a Brock equivalent. Some team is going to overpay him if he hits FA, that is what happens. If we try to say 20M plus incentives he would walk away in a heartbeat and the Skins aren't letting that happen.

SO

The Skins choices are :
FT him at 24 guaranteed for 1 year and put themselves in a terrible bargaining position next year ... or ...
Sign a long term Team Friendly deal that gives him an apy between 22.5 and 25M with guarantees starting around 58Million (2 year FT - 24M+34M) and incentivize the later years.

And KC is going to sign with the Skins. He knows the system, knows he has receivers and the support of the HC, and knows what he did here the last two years.

The rest of this is just fan hufferpuff

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

i imagined there would be lots of incentives that he would have to reach to get his yearly number above 20 million (Throw for 4,000 yards, Throw 30 TD's, play in 90% of the snaps, start all 16 games, etc....)

How old are you Snake? I am going to attempt to not be disrespectful but you sound like a dumb fucking kid who grew up playing madden and smashing the fantasy draft option while turning off salary cap.

Do you not understand market value?

Do you not understand leverage?

Do you not watch other NFL QB play in other NFL games?

I keep seeing you say things and use words like "incentives" but I dont think you understand how it all fucking works. Its making my god damn head hurt.

You want to keep the QB position around 12-14% of your total salary cap. The cap itself will conting to grow for a few years. What does that mean? Well, it means that the % of value will continue to rise as long as the NFL needs average to good QB'S.

Let me break it down for you in a different example.

Okay, say you buy a diamond earing today for $1000 dollars. Pretty steep right? Well, let's say somehow planet earth manages to find and mine a whole planet of diamonds far away and brings it all back to Earth. Well, the value of the diamond just became less demanding. So now, you will get that earing for even less. Lets say... $200.

Okay, now lets reverse that. Lets say you just bought the last diamond earing on earth because as soon as you put it on, every other diamond on earth went fucking poof and vanished! NOW, your diamonds value has increased! You could probably get it for 5x the amount you initially invested for.

Thats kinda how the QB position works in the NFL right now. With less QB play, we have to pay for more value. Especially when teams like the Texans pay 20 million to a guy named Brock Osweiler and he sucks ass. So, guess what? That made the position EVEN more valuable!!

Another example would be.... If Aaron Rodgers was to get offered a contract tomorrow. He would probably make close to 28 million dollars a years because hes considered a tier 1 QB which is even more valuable then a tier 2 QB. Guess what Kirk is?

Yep.. You guessed it. Hes a Tier 2 QB. So guess what his value stands around? Hes going to get offered more then his tag or he wont accept it. Want to know why? Because he has leverage. Ohhhh. There is that leverage word again.

Leverage means you basically have the person you cranking a deal with by the fucking balls because the stupid fucks decided to tag you the year before instead of offering 19-20 million LAST year. When the VALUE of the position was lower.

The draft is also adding to this value because there isnt 1...NOT 1 starting caliber QB coming out this year yet.. So, that adds... You wanna guess???

VALUE!!!! There it is again. It adds value to the poisition and allows Kirk agent to have MORE leverage!!!

So please do yourself a favor.. Look up current % market of QB and the % of each cap per team. Also google how much the cap will be increasing by that % each year.

Then.. do yourself one more favor and shut the fuck up about "incentives" and 18 million dollar contracts. You cant offer anyone "incentive" based fucking contracts when they have all the fucking leverage. Hes going to get what hes going to get Gauranteed. There will only be incentives after hes earned his VALUE.

Please understand the difference or stop posting. It gives me the shits.

Thank you. Maybe I could of been nicer but you seem to not get it. I apologize for being rude.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

In my opinion, as far as last year was concerned, they basically said "we really aren't sure about your ability, but we don't really have time to look for a replacement". Of course 2017 decision making is going to be very different. Kirk has proven to be an NFL starting QB. It comes down to money at this point. I wish we could give him between 21 and 23 million a year, but I don't think we will offer that. For some reason the number i have stuck in my head is 18 million a season for four seasons.

He won't sign for $18M per season. Why should he? He can just sign the franchise tag contract again and be guaranteed $24 in 2017. That adds up to $43M fully guaranteed over two seasons and then he can negotiate again prior to the 2018 season. That is a no-brainer for Kirk.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I just feel like tagging him again just delays the inevitable. If he has another great season (which I truly think he will) then the asking price just goes up and up. I honestly could see us having a better defense and Cousins having worse stats (better TD/INT ratio, lower yards and TDs) because they'd put less on his shoulders. I know we're talking about 2-3 million per year like it's a deal-breaker, but would it really be?