Disgusting

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

The thing you have to acknowledge is this, my view point is the one that this country was founded upon, and I think the result's have been unparalled in history, I also will say take a look at the result's of the foundation of the muslim religion, history speak's for itself. I know few these day's agree with what I am saying but I wouldn't be a friend to my fellow man if I hid the truth, which is unfortunatlly is becoming more and more less popular, I do support the right for an individual to believe what he want's to believe, but there is a big price to pay for those that choose wrongly!

I was hanging in there (mostly) with you offiss until this one. I am not sure what view point it is that you are saying the country was founded upon but I think you are tying it to christianity. If that is the case, I would have to disagree. While there was a strong belief in the existence of an almighty by the founding fathers, many of them were not christians in the traditional sense or in the manner we understand christians today. Rather, for the most part they were masonic, a sect of christianity which was based on secrecy and mysticism. Further, outside of the anglican southern elites and the northeastern puritans (or puritan-like sects), the majority of the country did not consider themselves "religious" by old-world standards.

The role and force of religion in American culture, history and politics is considerably convoluted. While almost always unanimous in the belief that we are a country "blessed by God", within certain broad parameters, the understanding and description of the God that is blessing us has varied greatly and, quite frankly, from our inception that has not necessarily involved the "Christian" God as defined in modern day society.

Also, to assert that a nation founded upon islam is doomed is, I believe, overly broad. I think (and I may be wrong) that Islam is the majority religion in the world. Further, there are many stable prosperous countries in which islam is the majority religion but not necessarily the "state religion". In countries which adopt islam as the state religion, yes there seems to be a pattern of problems. I would suggest, however, that comes more from the adoption of a "state" religion rather than from the religion chosen. (By the way, the Roman Empire, the Athenian Empire, the Han & Chin dynasties, the Khanate, the Mayan, Incan and Aztec Empires all existed for much longer time period than the US has as of yet and did so without the benefit of christianity).

IF HOWEVER, it is your suggestion that, as part of our country's founding and fundamental to our continued growth, is the recognition a "God" does exist and that we, as his creatures, must acknowledge his existence and seek his way, then yes, I acknowledge that and agree that the many ways people have done that through the history of this country has enhanced its growth and prosperity.


Damn, I am too long winded. I am sure by the time I have posted this, everyone else will have responded and rendered my (once again) brilliant points and theories moot.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I was hanging in there (mostly) with you offiss until this one. I am not sure what view point it is that you are saying the country was founded upon but I think you are tying it to christianity. If that is the case, I would have to disagree. While there was a strong belief in the existence of an almighty by the founding fathers, many of them were not christians in the traditional sense or in the manner we understand christians today. Rather, for the most part they were masonic, a sect of christianity which was based on secrecy and mysticism. Further, outside of the anglican southern elites and the northeastern puritans (or puritan-like sects), the majority of the country did not consider themselves "religious" by old-world standards.

The role and force of religion in American culture, history and politics is considerably convoluted. While almost always unanimous in the belief that we are a country "blessed by God", within certain broad parameters, the understanding and description of the God that is blessing us has varied greatly and, quite frankly, from our inception that has not necessarily involved the "Christian" God as defined in modern day society.

Also, to assert that a nation founded upon islam is doomed is, I believe, overly broad. I think (and I may be wrong) that Islam is the majority religion in the world. Further, there are many stable prosperous countries in which islam is the majority religion but not necessarily the "state religion". In countries which adopt islam as the state religion, yes there seems to be a pattern of problems. I would suggest, however, that comes more from the adoption of a "state" religion rather than from the religion chosen. (By the way, the Roman Empire, the Athenian Empire, the Han & Chin dynasties, the Khanate, the Mayan, Incan and Aztec Empires all existed for much longer time period than the US has as of yet and did so without the benefit of christianity).

IF HOWEVER, it is your suggestion that, as part of our country's founding and fundamental to our continued growth, is the recognition a "God" does exist and that we, as his creatures, must acknowledge his existence and seek his way, then yes, I acknowledge that and agree that the many ways people have done that through the history of this country has enhanced its growth and prosperity.


Damn, I am too long winded. I am sure by the time I have posted this, everyone else will have responded and rendered my (once again) brilliant points and theories moot.

JR the last phrase you wrote probably sum's up a lot of what I was trying to say, you are very correct that not all our fore father's were christian's, but most of our law's and thier intent of the law's were set forth according to the bible, as well if you research personal quotes of men such as washington, and jefferson, you will find quotes like, the day this nation turn's it's back on the lord god shall surely be it's end, many quotes along those lines that really give an idea behind the intent of the structure of this country, I am very aware of the critisism that comes these day's with crediting GOD for any good fortune that is bestowed upon us as individual's, as well as a country, but that lack of acknowledgement is exactly what the fore father's had warned us about, but it was only a matter of time before our country started to beat it's chest and discredit god for the abundance in which he has taken care of us, and claim credit for ourselves, it's the nature of man kind, and it's not just here in america, but we are the final frontier.