(Merged Threads) LaVar Arrington and Gregg Williams

[56FAN]

I am sooo sick of this i know i will :vomit-smi we don't have enough info to accuse or make a true judgement one way or another. hey, i'm as aggrivated as the next guy . But i am going to go against the flow here and chill we are all fans and things are not going perfectly. and the main culprit is us. it's part of the evolution of a team , from a loser to a contender . we don't have alot of quality depth.that's where the salary cap fu pa's come in. but joe's building a good roster. but the job's not done.as far as lavar is concerned, i choose not to get into it simply because i have no info to make an informed desicion with. and i like both parties.it's to my benifit and theirs to work it out. do i think lavar can help ?absolutely. do i think the coaches are lieing? NO. so i am left with a choice of either rolling in it or leave it be. i'm going to leave it be. thanks for your time. take it easy.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

Anyone with 56 as part of there name and references Michael Irvin to make a point doesn't' have one. This situation is best summed up in this Quote from a current Redskin player who asked not to be identified in the Lavar Article in the Post today.

"I think both sides need to meet in the middle somehow," said the teammate who asked not to be identified. "He needs to make more of an effort, mentally, to find his place in this system, and somehow they've got to find a way to get him on the field at least in certain situations. I think they can find a way to play him a little more, but you have to earn that trust on every play, and it's not there yet, and I can understand that, too. Everyone here knows he's a big turnover guy and can make those plays, but there has to be that trust that there won't be a big play back the other way, too, and that trust is not there yet."

Why would this unidentified player be saying the same things as coaches if its not true???? So all you people bashing GW for giving us the best defense we had in years think about what your saying. Were all rooting for the Redskins not the Arrington's.

Hey dude, go back to Mike Wilbons chat house and read what the defensive players are saying. And I believe Wilbon talks directly to the players. He says they want him on the field NOW. again, why is it you people feel the need to attack someone opinions or what they here on espn. Michael Irvin has no credit with you, he is a hall of famer. So does Troy Aikman have no credit, merrill Hodge, Jaws, those guys have no credit either. stop attacking other peoples opinions, this is what the chat is for. to express your opinions, I dont care if you disagree with what I am saying, but stop acting like spoiled brats when somebody doesnt agree with your line of thinking.

[LadyT]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Everyone is making some damn good points on this LaVar saga. I hadn't realized that Holdman has been contributing so much. 12 tackles, man that is probowl material there. And from the weak side, oh wait that means he doesn't have to worry about the TE as much. Well, 12 tackles thats still amazing. boy just imagine if he wasn't on the field how would we make up those 12 huge tackles? I am for one, punching Holmans name for the probowl. with those numbers he will end with something like 40 tackles this year, that is STRONG!! What are we all complaining about? do we think LaVar can get 12 tackles in 5 games, I think not!!


Are you kidding me, I hope you all realize that was sarcasim(spelled right?) at its best. 12 tackles from the weekside LB through 5 games, that is putrid!! I believe Carlos Rogers, a rookie corner who has only started 2 games has that many, and he even caused a fumble, we didn't get it back, but he caused one anyway. Every analyst, ever expert(so called) says there is no reason for LaVar to be sitting. Michael Irvin even said it has to be personal. I am starting to believe it. I never thought I would be so livid at my Redskins, but its an insult to all of us Skins fans if they think we are buying into this BS of LaVar not capable of playing in this D. As it was said earlier, If Marvin Lewis was having such a hard time with LaVar and his "freelancing" then why did he always have him on the field? you know why, because you have to game plan for the man, hes a playmaker, he puts fear in the hearts of those lining up under center, fear in people catching those little flares on the outside or in the middle. I saw no one around Priest a couple of times when he caught the ball in the middle of the field, and no one around to take a shot a Trent "I wear concrete on my feet" Green when he took off down the middle. Tell me he would even think about that if he is stairing down #56. Didn't Aikman try to run once, oh thats right he doesn't play anymore and wont even think about playing because he has nightmares of the Burgandy and Gold #56 drilling him into retirement!!!!!!!!

You said it all. This is becoming a huge distraction to this team, to the fans, to everyone. I think the coaches have backed themselves into a corner on this and now they don't know how to undo what's been done. Gibbs probably feels he needs to support his staff, so he will never intervene and go against what one of his coaches has done. I believe the coaches (GW and the linebacker coach) think they would somehow lose face, if they were to admit that LaVar should be playing and to actually start letting him do so.

I just wish they would focus on the most important thing - playing the 11 players on defense who can best help us to win. To say that LaVar is not part of that equation is sheer lunacy, especially with the "D" struggling as it now is.

Both sides (LaVar and coaches) need to put their egos aside, have a frank discussion, and then the coaches need to let the man play. Let him play for an entire 2 or 3 games. If they still think he shouldn't be playing after that, I can accept it and it's time to move on. But, with two back-to-back losses, I'm tired of seeing one of our biggest playmakers warming the bench.

[LadyT]

[QUOTE=skinsguy]

Originally Posted by LadyT

Questioning the coaching staff is one thing. We all do that from time to time. Calling them liars, as you have done so, it something completely different. That calls for hardcore evidence to prove such an accusation.

I'm just curious why I haven't seen you take part in any discussion when we're winning?

Sorry, but I call it like I see it. I don't for a minute believe that the excuses we're hearing are the full story behind all of this. Maybe that's part of the reason he's warming the bench, but I'll never believe that GW truly thinks LaVar is the 6th string (or worse) linebacker on this team. Come on, worse than Holdman? Do YOU honestly believe that? If you are being honest, you would have to say "no". And saying "no" implies that the coaches haven't been truthful as the full story of why he's not playing.

I also think LaVar hasn't helped his case by being so public in his comments. Both sides have drawn a line in the sand and I don't know how things will ever get turned around again between LaVar and his coaches.

Bottom line is - I believe we're a far better "D" when he's in the game. He has already proven he can get sacks, lead the team in tackles, and force turnovers. This year, the "D" seems incapable of doing #1 and #3. Put the man in and let him contribute where this "D" seems to be lacking.

[DirtBagZ]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So now we're in favor of Snyder meddling with the team?

Wow, what a great idea that is!

Management is ALSO Gibbs the TEAM President...I swear if you were not an Admin and could get me banned I would really tell you what I think of your ....opinions. That is an uncalled for personal attack...which I think you get away with too much of since you are an admin.

But I guess that cannot happen since Gibbs is also the head coach, he cannot over rule or undermine his staff. This is yet another reason why the headcoach/GM/Team President all in one person does not work. Why would the team invest $60+ Million in a guy if he is going to ride the pine?

[DirtBagZ]

"We're maybe two plays away from being 5-0, one in Denver and one yesterday," middle linebacker Lemar Marshall said. "If everybody's not on the same page, [a defense can be too aggressive], but generally that's not us. Everybody usually has a lane and is pursuing to the ball. In Denver, it was a couple of missed tackles. [On Sunday] it was more overpursuing, guys taking bad lanes."

The above quote is from LeMar Marshall, I took the liberty of bolding the key point, which I believe is the heinous crime LaVar has been accused of, in addition to free-lancing. Just some food for thought, and the above can be found here

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2005...5909-6848r.htm


Of course I am sure someone will point out the other part of the quote aoubt if a player is not on the same page as applying to Arrington. Myself I say for $60+ Million, we better see if the guy still has it or not.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by DirtBagZ

Management is ALSO Gibbs the TEAM President...I swear if you were not an Admin and could get me banned I would really tell you what I think of your ....opinions. That is an uncalled for personal attack...which I think you get away with too much of since you are an admin.

But I guess that cannot happen since Gibbs is also the head coach, he cannot over rule or undermine his staff. This is yet another reason why the headcoach/GM/Team President all in one person does not work. Why would the team invest $60+ Million in a guy if he is going to ride the pine?

Personal attack?

I think you're being way too sensitive if you think that was a personal attack.

I thought you were referring to Snyder, I guess I didn't read between the lines and understand you meant Gibbs.

A simple misunderstanding.

By the way I've never banned someone for their opinions. People only get banned for an outright disrespect of forum members. If you want to cut me down because of my lousy opinions feel free. Just don't let it be a personal attack, because that would be a little hypocritical, don't ya think?

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by DirtBagZ

"We're maybe two plays away from being 5-0, one in Denver and one yesterday," middle linebacker Lemar Marshall said. "If everybody's not on the same page, [a defense can be too aggressive], but generally that's not us. Everybody usually has a lane and is pursuing to the ball. In Denver, it was a couple of missed tackles. [On Sunday] it was more overpursuing, guys taking bad lanes."

The above quote is from LeMar Marshall, I took the liberty of bolding the key point, which I believe is the heinous crime LaVar has been accused of, in addition to free-lancing. Just some food for thought, and the above can be found here

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2005...5909-6848r.htm


Of course I am sure someone will point out the other part of the quote aoubt if a player is not on the same page as applying to Arrington. Myself I say for $60+ Million, we better see if the guy still has it or not.

When LeMar Marshall has been in 3 probowls then he can start to call people out on defense. Until then he should be glad he has a job. Nobody on that team should be calling anyone out, whether its obvious or not. You are a team and work together. I stand by my post from yesterday, where Wilbon says he has spoken to several D starters and they all want him on the field NOW>

[MTK]

Marshall isn't calling anyone out specifically, he just said what we already know, guys aren't on the same page and guys are out of position. Nothing new here.

[diehardskin2982]

I think this whole arrington situation is having a mental effect on the team. It's drawing away from our positives like our record and our offense moving the ball well. It has to be tense in that locker room especially after a loss.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I stand by my post from yesterday, where Wilbon says he has spoken to several D starters and they all want him on the field NOW>

There's also another side to the coin here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...81.html?sub=AR

In a game against St. Louis, he sacked Kurt Warner and forced a fumble to clinch the victory. But privately, Lewis said Arrington was ill prepared to handle coverage duties. Lewis, who declined to comment for this story, later told Sports Illustrated magazine that Arrington was the most "undisciplined" player he had ever coached.

One teammate, who asked not to be identified yet remains a supporter of Arrington and believes he should be playing more, said the linebacker "cost us three games" in 2003 because of mistakes, and it became a subject of conversation in the locker room.

This defense didn't come easy to him," the former Redskin said, "and he's had five coordinators and been through a lot of different defenses and had a lot to learn. With these coaches, there's no slack. Other coaches here were really patient with him and worked with him, and these coaches, if you don't know all of your stuff, you're not going to play. That's not their problem. That's how they look at it, and everyone there knows it. And then he got hurt, and they felt other guys did a great job, and that group had everything down, and that's who they're going with."

By the time he got back in a game in December, Arrington was backing up Marshall. In what would become a harbinger, defensive coordinator Greg Blache told The Washington Post: "If [Arrington] wants to be on the field and compete, he'd better be where he is supposed to be, and he's got to understand that. We've had success because everybody has done their job. We don't need somebody to be a 'superstar.' "

"He's the most outspoken guy on the team, and he said a lot of stuff that rubbed the coaches the wrong way," the former Redskin said. "And they're old-school coaches."

"The one thing people have to understand is there is no vendetta here," Blache said. "We want to win, and we've all been around long enough to know what it takes to win, and you can't talk your way into a win in this league, you got me? You can bust your hump and do as much as you can and still lose. So we're trying to stack everything we can in our favor to get it done, and hype ain't going to do it; reputation is not going to do it. You've got to do it based on what you do on a daily basis."
The teammate who asked not to be identified said he doubts there is any sort of vendetta involving Snyder and sees this as the coaches' decision, albeit an extreme one.

"I think they are sending a message here," he said. "I think that hits the nail on the head. There's things he's done that have rubbed them the wrong way, and there are things they've done that have rubbed him the wrong way, and now it's a pissing match. In these cases usually the player loses, because you can't put yourself in the game."

I think there are many factors that are at play here. LaVar's freelancing style, his speaking out in the media, he's missed a lot of time and has perhaps fallen behind, his overall attitude, etc.

It's not a black and white issue of he should be playing or he shouldn't. I'm hoping they can come to some sort of resolution soon, because one would have to think he could at least help rush the passer from the DE spot on 3rd downs.

[memphisskin]

It doesn't add up, on the surface it would seem to be such an easy fix. No turnovers, add in your biggest playmaker, problem solved. GW's system seems to be more based on effort, which is why so many street free agents have been able to contribute defensively. So if Lemar Marshall can contribute, and Warrick Holdman can contribute, why can't Lavar contribute? If the bottom line is to win football games, then why not play someone who has proven REPEATEDLY that he can do just that. I'm not buying that he puts the defense in jeopardy with his freelancing, that's just spin to me. This year he's a freelancer and will have to earn time along with the other 2nd and 3rd teamers, but just last year he had tremendous football instincts and was a 3 time Pro Bowler.

Reading between the lines, it doesn't sound too promising. I mean who believed that management would have threatened to blackball Laverneus Coles? I like the direction the Skins are going in, but facts are facts. Greg Williams has already begun making it known that he'd like to be a head coach again. If the defense finishes in the top 5 again we all know he'll be a top candidate for places like Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston and Oakland. Meanwhile we've got one of the best linebackers in football languishing on the bench reportedly because things have turned into a pissing contest? If we cut or trade Lavar then we will have made a HUGE mistake just in order to prove a point. You can't have that big of a percentage of your salary cap riding the pine when he's healthy, so the handwriting is on the wall.

Me, I hope he gets a chance to play because I think we all agree that Lavar didn't suddenly forget how to play football. Maybe it's a Dan Snyder marketing thing, there are so many Arrington jerseys sold that Snyder is quelling that demand and creating a demand for Moss jerseys. Or maybe they're holding Arrington back just like they are holding back this new running game that is going to free Portis up more.

[jacobyfan]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Greg Williams has already begun making it known that he'd like to be a head coach again.

Can you provide a reference for this?

[irish]

[QUOTE=LadyT]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Sorry, but I call it like I see it. I don't for a minute believe that the excuses we're hearing are the full story behind all of this. Maybe that's part of the reason he's warming the bench, but I'll never believe that GW truly thinks LaVar is the 6th string (or worse) linebacker on this team. Come on, worse than Holdman? Do YOU honestly believe that? If you are being honest, you would have to say "no". And saying "no" implies that the coaches haven't been truthful as the full story of why he's not playing.

I also think LaVar hasn't helped his case by being so public in his comments. Both sides have drawn a line in the sand and I don't know how things will ever get turned around again between LaVar and his coaches.

Bottom line is - I believe we're a far better "D" when he's in the game. He has already proven he can get sacks, lead the team in tackles, and force turnovers. This year, the "D" seems incapable of doing #1 and #3. Put the man in and let him contribute where this "D" seems to be lacking.

Andy Polen ran the numbers on yesterday's Sports Reporters show on WTEM concerning LA being a big turnovers guy and the numbers show he is not the turnover guy the fans think he is. He has about 3 INTs for his career and in the year he played 14 games for Marty he had zero forced fumbles. The bottom line is that LA is not the turnover machine he is perceived to be.

That said I do think he should be in the game for more than 2 special teams plays.

[#56fanatic]

Trent Green said all that needs to be said regarding this. Teams have to game plan for LaVar, he is that kind of difference maker. Then you add Taylor to the mix and they are that much more dangerous. When he learned he didn't have to worry about LaVar chasing him down, or RBs, or hitting his WR across the middle, it put him at ease. The man hasn't even been on the field this year and teams still inquire if he is playing and game plan accordingly. The other teams have that much respect for him, but our coaches dont. Boy we are making teams game planning alot easier dont you think. I didn't hear they are gameplanning against Holdman, or Marshall.