Kirk Cousins 24/7 thread

[FREE-AG3NT]

I said I want him back.. But nobody mentions a number, that they think he's worth.. I want him to stay but not for top 5 money over 20 a year.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Letting him go for what? Nothing? Couldn't they work a deal with another club for the Redskins to sign him to a contract that would be acceptable to that club and then trade him to that club for a haul of draft picks? Outright cutting him is out of the question, IMO.

By the way, I'm guessing that the $22M that you say is not too much this year would have been too much in your mind last year. This current dilemma could have easily been avoided by the Redskins if they had signed him to a long-term deal last year. If the Skins franchise him again this year then the $24M cost to tag him will look cheap compared to what it would take to sign him the year after that. Plus there is no way to structure a one year franchise tag contract to reduce the cap hit for it. I think the Redskins screwed up by not signing him to a long-term deal last season and if they tag him again this year it will probably end up being an even worse salary cap screw up. Each time he is franchised, the Skins are digging themselves a deeper hole.

I personally think he's worth "only" 20 million a year. I could live with 22 but I don't think he was worth that last year or this year.. If he wants 25 million plus then yes I say cut him loose. I don't care about passing yards. I care about red zone production and wins. He talks a bigger game than he plays when it counts.

[Irrefutable]

Originally Posted by mooby

We only have 65 million in cap room, maybe we just don't have room after all.

that is before cutting DHall, Kory L, S Lauvao, Paul... which adds about $12 million

So sign KC to a 5 year $125 million dollar contract... $50 million guaranteed ...$25 million signing bonus... year 1- $10 million.... year 2 -$15 million year 3 -$25 million.... year 4 -$25 million.... year 5 - $25 million (maybe a little low)
year 1 cap hit 15 million

Sign Garcon to 3 years $35 million $10 million signing bonus... salary 5/10/10
year 1 cap hit $8.3 million

Say no to Baker... to expensive

Sign free agents;

Bengals Guard Zeitler / OL - year 1 $8 million cap#

Davis TE ......................... $2.5 million cap #

Buffalo Gilmore / Texas Bouye CB $9 million cap #

Free Agent... level B free safety FS $6 million cap #
.................................................. .........................
Cost close to $50 million

This leave room for a few 1 year contracts.

Draft

Round 1 DL
Round 2 DL/OLB
Round 3 RB
Round 4a TE
Round 4b DL
Round 5a FS
Round 5b SS
Round 6a WR
Round 6b CB
Round 7 C

[Bucket]

What if I told you that we could Sign Kirk and still build a defense?

We live in a new age where the cap is ever growing.

[FREE-AG3NT]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan View Post
Letting him go for what? Nothing? Couldn't they work a deal with another club for the Redskins to sign him to a contract that would be acceptable to that club and then trade him to that club for a haul of draft picks? Outright cutting him is out of the question, IMO.

By the way, I'm guessing that the $22M that you say is not too much this year would have been too much in your mind last year. This current dilemma could have easily been avoided by the Redskins if they had signed him to a long-term deal last year. If the Skins franchise him again this year then the $24M cost to tag him will look cheap compared to what it would take to sign him the year after that. Plus there is no way to structure a one year franchise tag contract to reduce the cap hit for it. I think the Redskins screwed up by not signing him to a long-term deal last season and if they tag him again this year it will probably end up being an even worse salary cap screw up. Each time he is franchised, the Skins are digging themselves a deeper hole.


That all depends on what he wanted last year which was probably too much based on his small sample size I heard the Skins were willing to go 16-17million last year which seem fair to me then and even now, but he didn't want that. His comments after the game made me lose a lot of respect for him he was so indifferent when asked about the team. Then his next statement about getting as much as he can so it's fair to the other QBs in the NFL looking for their payday was the final straw. I almost don't care if he goes even though that's a scarier thought.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by FREE-AG3NT

I said I want him back.. But nobody mentions a number, that they think he's worth.. I want him to stay but not for top 5 money over 20 a year.

I don't think he should get 25 mil a year but he does have the leverage. His leverage is "if I walk, you got nothing." Our leverage is "well we need to build a good team, if we give you all the money we are screwed."

TL;DR: 24 mil a year is my max, that would be manageable. 22-23 would be ideal but I don't see him settling for that. Keep in mind we always have the ability to renegotiate, and we do that every year with big money players. 25 and up would be "greatest thing since sliced bread" money but after the crappers against NYG and Carolina I think we can use that against him.

If Kirk is the good guy we believe he is, and recognizes that he needs a good team around him to be effective, then maybe he settles for 22/23. I'm putting 20% odds on that though, because his agent will be handling negotiations and so far his statements don't indicate he will settle for less in exchange for the good of the team. We can always hope though.

The final thing that people forget when discussing numbers is percentage of the salary cap. Schneed would be my go-to guy on this, but the number isn't important, what is important is what percentage of the salary cap it will be. There is a quote from Kirk floating around the internet (I have searched but I can't find it, it is from his season ending interview last week) where the important # is 14%. With a projected cap of $168 mil (taken from Schneed's salary cap thread) 14% of that projects to be $23.52 mil. If that average annual value comes true, I would be satisfied with that as it would be in similar range to the going rate for a decent qb in this league. Andrew Luck's contract that he signed after a down season in 2015 is for 6 years, 140 mil, with 87 million guaranteed for injury and 47 mil guaranteed at signing. And the hilarious part is that apparently those were considered bad numbers by those who track these sort of things. The fact that Luck had a bad year after his huge deal also sucks for us, because the fact that Cousins had a better season than him means his agent might not be willing to settle for Andrew Luck money.

Final TL;DR: 24 a year hopefully, 22-23 would be nice but improbable. If Skins lowball him again, with an 18-20 mil/year offer that fans and possibly him would interpret as a sign of disrespect (let's face it, the man doesn't deserve Brock Osweiler money), then maybe it's time to be concerned. If he demands 25/year at the lowest and we concede then maybe we should be concerned that we can't build a good team around him. Hopefully both sides are willing to negotiate in good faith and we can get this shit over with. If not, he will get franchise tagged (we have no plan B, I don't value your opinion if you think Colt McCoy is a viable 16 game qb) and play the year on the tag again, while we hopefully think of a better plan B for next year.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by Bucket

What if I told you that we could Sign Kirk and still build a defense?

We live in a new age where the cap is ever growing.

You should find a way to tell Scot M, because he believes that you can't do both.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Bucket

What if I told you that we could Sign Kirk and still build a defense?

We live in a new age where the cap is ever growing.

That is kinda of a misnomer; the cap growing is also in proportion to salaries growing, cost of money and inflation. If salaries stayed flat and the the cap grow that be great but unfortunately they usually follow each other.

[MTK]

If SM doesn't believe in paying a QB I'm still trying to figure out why he gave KC $20m last year. Definitely would like to hear more on this.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

If SM doesn't believe in paying a QB I'm still trying to figure out why he gave KC $20m last year. Definitely would like to hear more on this.

Or $50m guaranteed to a top CB in Norman last year.

I cannot imagine the money number is the issue - it never has been under Snyder's ownership. imo, the Skins would sign him for $24-25m out the gate, but the contract language is where the two sides hit the rough spots, and that's on Bruce Allen to get those issues worked out.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

You should find a way to tell Scot M, because he believes that you can't do both.

SM knows he can, but you don't give away what little leverage you have in a negotiation. His only card is the team building aspect, if he says you can do both at the beginning of negotiations, then he might as well just sign whatever KC's agent puts in front of him.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I just feel like tagging him again just delays the inevitable. If he has another great season (which I truly think he will) then the asking price just goes up and up. I honestly could see us having a better defense and Cousins having worse stats (better TD/INT ratio, lower yards and TDs) because they'd put less on his shoulders. I know we're talking about 2-3 million per year like it's a deal-breaker, but would it really be?

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I personally think he's worth "only" 20 million a year. I could live with 22 but I don't think he was worth that last year or this year.. If he wants 25 million plus then yes I say cut him loose. I don't care about passing yards. I care about red zone production and wins. He talks a bigger game than he plays when it counts.

Hold on a minute! It seems from your post that you don't think Kirk will eventually be good enough to win a Super Bowl with once the team is built around him. Yet you say you'd be willing to pay a man $22M per year who you don't think can lead the team to it's goal? That is nonsensical.

The very first decision the Redskins must make about Kirk is whether or not he can one day lead the team to a Super Bowl victory. If the answer if "no" then they shouldn't throw away any money on him. Conversely, if the Redskins believe he is the man to do the job, then they must find a way to sign him. That part is binary.

Can we all just move away from the ridiculous notion that if Kirk isn't the right guy, then the Redskins still should sign him to a long-term contract but for less money, say $20M for five or six years. What would that accomplish? The answer is nothing. It would be a total waste of money and cap space.

So what is your answer on Kirk, sdskinsfan? Yes or no? It's time to decide.

[SFREDSKIN]

Opening round of playoffs helps establish Kirk Cousins' value - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

that is before cutting DHall, Kory L, S Lauvao, Paul... which adds about $12 million

So sign KC to a 5 year $125 million dollar contract... $50 million guaranteed ...$25 million signing bonus... year 1- $10 million.... year 2 -$15 million year 3 -$25 million.... year 4 -$25 million.... year 5 - $25 million (maybe a little low)
year 1 cap hit 15 million

Sign Garcon to 3 years $35 million $10 million signing bonus... salary 5/10/10
year 1 cap hit $8.3 million

Say no to Baker... to expensive

Sign free agents;

Bengals Guard Zeitler / OL - year 1 $8 million cap#

Davis TE ......................... $2.5 million cap #

Buffalo Gilmore / Texas Bouye CB $9 million cap #

Free Agent... level B free safety FS $6 million cap #
.................................................. .........................
Cost close to $50 million

This leave room for a few 1 year contracts.

Draft

Round 1 DL
Round 2 DL/OLB
Round 3 RB
Round 4a TE
Round 4b DL
Round 5a FS
Round 5b SS
Round 6a WR
Round 6b CB
Round 7 C

Couple things, first you don't address the Front 7 in free agency with legit talent. And you say Chris Baker (lotta hate for this guy...I have zero clue why) is too expensive but give Garcon 35 million.

Zeilter wouldn't be a bad option, I didn't think he was a FA. There are several really lots options at Guard and Linebacker in free agency.