Democratic Primary Push for White House

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

I dont think Trump "colluded" with Russia. I do think Russia initiated a social media blitz that was just parroting and creating an echo chamber for right wing conspiracies with the goal of (1) sewing dissention among americans (gee how is this thread playing out, lots of name calling, trench warfare and tribalism) and (2) get Trump elected bc hes easily manipulated.



Trump has though been the gullible fool being played by Russia and Putin. And SA and anyone else who wants to manipulate him by overly complimenting him.



Trump is still parroting this Crowd Strike election interference came from Ukraine and not Russia ... when the intelligence community says it was clearly Russia. I dont think trump did anything wrong w Russia in 2016 but he thinks if he admits Russia did a misinformation campaign to favor him in the election .. that somehow takes way from his "biggest electoral win since Reagan".



Trump is just a useful idiot, especially for someone like Putin.

I agree with this to the extent that you go, but I would add that the whole of our system has become useful idiots. Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi turn to rabid little puppies when they get a whiff of an antiTrump bone, true or not. They howl and yap, and the media play it up.

We now have 3+ years of Trump dealing with Russia and 30 years of Bernie's love of Russia. It is hard to see that Russia would prefer an administration that pushed for and sent lethal aid to Ukraine over a Biden administration that fought against it.

Common sense should point to the obvious reason Russia would support Trump and that is because they gain when our political house is fractured. And it is fractured because of the bizarre hatred and vindictiveness from both sides that they, the Russians, can - as you said - so easily manipulate.

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[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I agree with this to the extent that you go, but I would add that the whole of our system has become useful idiots. Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi turn to rabid little puppies when they get a whiff of an antiTrump bone, true or not. They howl and yap, and the media play it up.

We now have 3+ years of Trump dealing with Russia and 30 years of Bernie's love of Russia. It is hard to see that Russia would prefer an administration that pushed for and sent lethal aid to Ukraine over a Biden administration that fought against it.

Common sense should point to the obvious reason Russia would support Trump and that is because they gain when our political house is fractured. And it is fractured because of the bizarre hatred and vindictiveness from both sides that they, the Russians, can - as you said - so easily manipulate.

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Agreed. The Syria withdrawl has been bothering me lately. I thoght we should have stayed at least as monitors to keep the Kurds from being crushed and the Dems and liberals were screaming how this is genocide for the US to pull out.

I was inundated with Syria refuge crisis articles and politicians taking turns talking into the microphone about the greatest humanitarian crisis of all time ...

Now you hear nothing. Idlib is now being fought over by Russia/Syria with Turkey probably backing off. This is causing 800k to 2 million people, families, being forced to evacuate and just walk towards the Turkey border where Turkey already has like 4 million syrian refugees in camps.

Where is the continued 24/7 coverage of this? where are those so concerned politicians now?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Agreed. The Syria withdrawl has been bothering me lately. I thoght we should have stayed at least as monitors to keep the Kurds from being crushed and the Dems and liberals were screaming how this is genocide for the US to pull out.

I was inundated with Syria refuge crisis articles and politicians taking turns talking into the microphone about the greatest humanitarian crisis of all time ...

Now you hear nothing. Idlib is now being fought over by Russia/Syria with Turkey probably backing off. This is causing 800k to 2 million people, families, being forced to evacuate and just walk towards the Turkey border where Turkey already has like 4 million syrian refugees in camps.

Where is the continued 24/7 coverage of this? where are those so concerned politicians now?

If the Obama Administration would have put up the No Fly Zone and armed Kurds...This would have been over 3-4 years ago and Syria would be having elections now.

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

If the Obama Administration would have put up the No Fly Zone and armed Kurds...This would have been over 3-4 years ago and Syria would be having elections now.

I dont think even the mighty USA can go an unilaterally enforce a no fly zone in a foreign country .. restricting that country from flying in their own air space. Russia already buzzes our guys when we are flying in international air space.

No way Russia and Syria would have abided by it, creates way to many instances where "something" could happen. A no fly zone sounded nice but I dont think it would be realistic.

Arming the kurds - I feel like we did but said we were only sending defensive material and not tanks etc but we hooked them up as much as we could. They had those shoulder launcher things to take down helicopters and tanks. Turkey and the Kurds is a delicate relationship and I think we did have to balance helping the Kurds fight ISIS while also limiting the disdain from Turkey.

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Middle east diplomacy? I dont think there are any "best case" scenarios re diplomacy. You could argue pros and cons for no fly zone or complete pull out or maintaining a monitor presence. All would be right but also wrong.

Damned if you, damned if you dont.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

I dont think even the mighty USA can go an unilaterally enforce a no fly zone in a foreign country .. restricting that country from flying in their own air space. Russia already buzzes our guys when we are flying in international air space.

No way Russia and Syria would have abided by it, creates way to many instances where "something" could happen. A no fly zone sounded nice but I dont think it would be realistic.

Arming the kurds - I feel like we did but said we were only sending defensive material and not tanks etc but we hooked them up as much as we could. They had those shoulder launcher things to take down helicopters and tanks. Turkey and the Kurds is a delicate relationship and I think we did have to balance helping the Kurds fight ISIS while also limiting the disdain from Turkey.

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Middle east diplomacy? I dont think there are any "best case" scenarios re diplomacy. You could argue pros and cons for no fly zone or complete pull out or maintaining a monitor presence. All would be right but also wrong.

Damned if you, damned if you dont.

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come any way? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the Russians Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on Russia

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come always? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the
Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

My memory (without re-reading the hundreds of articles ive read over the past years) was that Al-Assad was very close to be thrown out until the last minute when Russia provided air cover and that drastically changed things.

im talking about Syria now ... because it is now. In 2016, I was talking about Syria .. in 2016. Not sure if i follow.

Obama and the US didnt want to get sucked into another objectiveless occupation like Iraq and Afgahnistan. I prefer that policy, so does your boy Trump.

if Obama went hard and bombed Syria and demanded no fly zones etc and something happened, people like you Chico would be screaming bloody murder. Obama went de-escalate and people like you are screaming.

Chico - im projecting here but I think you would attack any position Obama or any Dem took or takes. its okay though, there are many people on the left who have their "hate blinders" on as well and will scream at any little thing Trump or republicans do.

and now i find myself attacking another american for their political belief system and I feel like an asshole bc I try really hard not to judge others.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

My memory (without re-reading the hundreds of articles ive read over the past years) was that Al-Assad was very close to be thrown out until the last minute when Russia provided air cover and that drastically changed things.

im talking about Syria now ... because it is now. In 2016, I was talking about Syria .. in 2016. Not sure if i follow.

Obama and the US didnt want to get sucked into another objectiveless occupation like Iraq and Afgahnistan. I prefer that policy, so does your boy Trump.

if Obama went hard and bombed Syria and demanded no fly zones etc and something happened, people like you Chico would be screaming bloody murder. Obama went de-escalate and people like you are screaming.

Chico - im projecting here but I think you would attack any position Obama or any Dem took or takes. its okay though, there are many people on the left who have their "hate blinders" on as well and will scream at any little thing Trump or republicans do.

and now i find myself attacking another american for their political belief system and I feel like an asshole bc I try really hard not to judge others.

When I hear the term ‘useful idiot’ and then think from a policy perspective in how two administrations have acted towards Syria and Russia...the narrative simply falls flat. Especially when I hear Obama tell Mitt Romney in the debates say the 1980s call and they want their foreign policy back...when Mitt correctly pointed out the Russian government was the biggest threat to the US.

The Russians were “mid-game” when it comes to the entire Syria civil war context. Go back and look at the timelines. No fly zone was on the table and have proven to be extremely effective strategy.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come always? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the

Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.



But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?



Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.



And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on Russia

I think you are making assumptions about sunny. He wasn't slamming Trump (I don't think) or rushing to Obama's praise.

Moreso he was, again I think, pointing out how the media and politicians pick and choose their story of the day.

It is a truly sad thing to see these refugees and know that they are suffering partially because US policy in the mideast for so long has been a mess. Backing then not backing, encouraging popular uprisings then watching them get pounded back into submission. We as a nation can not be everywhere, and when our leaders think we can, bad things end up happening to the people on the ground.

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[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think you are making assumptions about sunny. He wasn't slamming Trump (I don't think) or rushing to Obama's praise.

Moreso he was, again I think, pointing out how the media and politicians pick and choose their story of the day.

It is a truly sad thing to see these refugees and know that they are suffering partially because US policy in the mideast for so long has been a mess. Backing then not backing, encouraging popular uprisings then watching them get pounded back into submission. We as a nation can not be everywhere, and when our leaders think we can, bad things end up happening to the people on the ground.

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Yes that was my original intent. the Dems and media portrayed the abrupt Trump pull out as some genocide and it was in the news 24/7 but now .. its crickets from the dems and media.

I do believe the Kurds were politically useful to the dems for a week, they feigned concern and outrage at trump .. but now where is that same concern for the refugees? It wasnt an instant massacre that the Dems predicted so it lost its political use?

I guess Im more annoyed at the media, I have to actually hunt for current syria articles vs before it was every where. Where are those embedded reporters? Wheres the horror of barrell bombs being dropped on civilian hospitals? its still happenening, its till sick but the US and media "have moved one" it seems. Convenient.

im ranting right now .. cathartic i suppose

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Ohhh you are assuming Russia would have come any way? Really? The Obama doctrine of strength wouldn’t have kept the Russians Out? Also Russia wasn’t what kept Syria from hanging on, it was Iran doing constant flying in arms and reinforcements....something the no fly zone would have kept out. Especially after Iraq refused to let them reinforce over their country.

But why are you choosing to speak about the Syrian situation now, say post 2016. Why don’t you address it from the beginning where the policy laid the foundation of failure?

Obama completely fucked up Syria situation.

And if you want to talk Russia, let’s talk about the Obama administration and their constant ass kicking Putin gave Obama. It’s like trump never gave Ukraine lethal arms support, killed Russian troops in Syria and imposed sanctions on Russia

I agree. Obama fucked up the Syria situation.

Now what?

How do you fix it? Do you even care about fixing it? If not, why are you here, except to point out who needs to be blamed for the entire thing.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

I agree. Obama fucked up the Syria situation.

Now what?

How do you fix it? Do you even care about fixing it? If not, why are you here, except to point out who needs to be blamed for the entire thing.

So trump armed the Kurds, defeated isis....are you asking what else should we do now?

Mooby, you just were fucking telling 6 weeks ago trump had started the 3 world war with Iran and now suddenly you want us embedded in Syria again? Can we even get any policy consistency? Dude took out one of the top state sponsor terrorist in the world and the media and dems are screaming that was a bad move...

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

...

Common sense should point to the obvious reason Russia would support Trump and that is because they gain when our political house is fractured. And it is fractured because of the bizarre hatred and vindictiveness from both sides that they, the Russians, can - as you said - so easily manipulate.

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Hmmm. CNN walking back reports. Note the last line

Russia is interfering in the 2020 election, intelligence officials say, but the US doesn't have evidence that it's aimed at reelecting Trump -- only sowing discord

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[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Hmmm. CNN walking back reports. Note the last line




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Enemy of the people. Fucking pathetic

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Enemy of the people. Fucking pathetic

Yes, trump is! Nice you see the light now!

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Hmmm. CNN walking back reports. Note the last line




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Who is at fault here CNN or the intelligence official? CNN reported a story and then when the source for the story was found to be unverified they walked it back. That sounds like journalism and not bias. Not sure why you are persecuting CNN here. I guess you would rather them continue pursuing a false story to fit your narrative?