Who starts at QB?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Huddle

Reminder: Patrick didn't "stink it up." Joe Gibbs declared Patrick his starter after watching both perform in 2004.

Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Right. Ramsey performed so well after the preseason in '04 that Gibbs named Mark Brunell the starter. Subsequently, Brunell started the rest of the '05 season even after Ramsey was medically cleared to play after his neck injury in the opener against the Bears.

So basically you're saying that the 50-60 snaps in the preseasons of 2004 and 2005 won the job for Brunell and the 16 games of 2004 regular season "fair and open competition" between the two QBs didn't carry much weight. Is that it?

[jermus22]

Like others have said, if Campbell isn't starting by some point next season, I'll wonder why in the world we wasted a 1st round pick on him. I personally think if he isn't starting by the season opener, it will probably be 5-8 games into the season before Brunell gives way to him. I'm hoping both Brunell and Collins will help groom him for the job.

[redskins5044]

The QB situation is one that scares me right now. We have a veteran starter in Brunell and qb who knows saunders system in Collins and a second year player who hasnt taken a snap yet. Last year Brunell started great then as the season went on he started to wear down. So going into this season Brunell will probably be the starter and Campbell the backup and collins just here to help teach the system. If Brunell goes down i jsut dont feel comfortable with Campbell as a starter yet and collins has been a carrer backup. I just hope jason is hitting the books and hope to see him play in the preseaon when the first stringers are playing to see what he has,

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Huddle

So basically you're saying that the 50-60 snaps in the preseasons of 2004 and 2005 won the job for Brunell and the 16 games of 2004 regular season "fair and open competition" between the two QBs didn't carry much weight. Is that it?

I'm saying that from what Joe Gibbs has seen, and there's been plenty of evidence from game tapes of Ramsey since 2002, Brunell was the better option at the time.

Look, I was a fan of Ramsey. I rooted for him. But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm saying that from what Joe Gibbs has seen, and there's been plenty of evidence from game tapes of Ramsey since 2002, Brunell was the better option at the time.

Look, I was a fan of Ramsey. I rooted for him. But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?

He proved he was our best QB for three years running and he was improving with each game. He outplayed Weurful, Matthews and Brunell. He was 10-13 as a starter while we were 8 -17 in games he didn't start over those three years.

Maybe he didn't show you and Joe Gibbs much. Maybe you expected a young QB to do more. With the lack of supporting talent and the unprofessional offensive schemes he worked with in those years, I didn't.

Now, soon, we'll start all over...living with young Jason Campbell's mistakes. We're going into 2006 with a roster that is loaded except at the most important QB position.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?

No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright

Yeah. I have to admit that's the one argument you can make that makes any sense. Joe's a HOF coach. He knows best.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Huddle

Yeah. I have to admit that's the one argument you can make that makes any sense. Joe's a HOF coach. He knows best.

Yeah - Silly us just looking at Brunnell's 23 TD and 11 Int's last season.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Yeah - Silly us just looking at Brunnell's 23 TD and 11 Int's last season.

If you are impressed by that stat and can ignore that we were forced to rely almost completely on the running game late in the season because Mark's very limited game was easily defensed by our opponent's over the second half of the season, then I certainly wouldn't deny you your bliss.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright

Well we all know there's at least one person here who has insisted time and again that nearly all the GMs around the league see something in Ramsey that Gibbs doesn't and Ramsey needs to be saved before Gibbs does any more damage to him than he already has...and yet teams don't seem to be banging down our door clamoring for Ramsey.

[Huddle]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well we all know there's at least one person here who has insisted time and again that nearly all the GMs around the league see something in Ramsey that Gibbs doesn't and Ramsey needs to be saved before Gibbs does any more damage to him than he already has...and yet teams don't seem to be banging down our door clamoring for Ramsey.

This is a circular argument.

Joe Gibbs drove down Ramsey's value, not by word but by deed.

Now, you argue that Joe Gibbs is proven right because he apparently doesn't have much value.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Huddle

This is a circular argument.

Joe Gibbs drove down Ramsey's value, not by word but by deed.

Now, you argue that Joe Gibbs is proven right because he apparently doesn't have much value.

Perhaps. But let's say he started Ramsey from day one in 2004. And Ramsey tanked with the rest of the offense while they all got their act together (players and coaches). That wouldn't do much for his value. At least to some extent Ramsey still has the allure of "untapped potential" because he hasn't played all that much, compared to say Joey Harrington.

Anyhow, all I was getting at is that some people on this site (before you joined) have been adamant that Gibbs has something personal against Ramsey and that Gibbs is ignorant to the vast talent Ramsey has. That all around the league GMs see it, and even former GMs who are now analysts see it. But Gibbs doesn't.

That's all I was saying