The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Yes I realize that. But what happens if Brunell has to start for lets say 5 weeks. Can we win with him as our QB? Will our passing game be at an NFL level? I doubt it. Our defense would have to go back to 04-05 form and carry the team.

It was last year and the year before that...by every possible measure. Will we win those 5 games? Not if the defense plays like it did this year. Then again, if the defense doesn't play better, it doesn't matter who plays QB.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Ok I kinda hopped onto this thread a bit late, but why would this happen seeing that Todd is Al's boy? He brought him here from KC and he knows the "system" so why would Al even let this happen. I was joking about the whole reach around thing but I think Al would fight hard against this.

Could anyone summarize how this could happen without removing/seriously upsetting Al?

I'm not in any way saying I expect it to happen or that it will happen. I'm just presenting it as a good idea and smart move for the future.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Schneed,

Thanks for correcting my numbers re: Carr's contract. I guess I didn't realize he got that much.

No prob, with the flurry of signings that goes on this time of year the numbers can get all jumbled around.

But GTripp, can you explain to me why signing a guy of Tim Rattay's quality will be more expensive next year than he would be right now?

He's a mediocre-at-best QB that's been ditched by two teams now. Carr got $3 million a year. If Rattay is worth $2.5 million a year now (which we can't afford in 07 by the way), then why would a guy like him be worth anything more than $2.8 or so next year?

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Yes I realize that. But what happens if Brunell has to start for lets say 5 weeks. Can we win with him as our QB? Will our passing game be at an NFL level? I doubt it. Our defense would have to go back to 04-05 form and carry the team.

I think you missing the logic of the argument.

1)What he is saying is that both Brunell and Garcia aren't amazing QBs, agreed?

2)But Garcia led a much better Philly team on a playoff run. Brunell had a much worst Washington team, but he pulled off a similar run.

3)Therefore since both QBs are about the same in terms of age and type of QB(short passes/scrambling), Brunell is the better choice because he succeeded in a worst situation. Plus he knows our system better than Garcia does.

[hooskins]

Also like others have said Ratty vs. Brunell for 2nd string seems like an interesting battle. Much better than Collins vs. Brunell.

Also why is this in the Draft section?

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It was last year and the year before that...by every possible measure. Will we win those 5 games? Not if the defense plays like it did this year. Then again, if the defense doesn't play better, it doesn't matter who plays QB.

Sorry. Our passing game last year w/ Brunell was not very good. The guy struggles to throw for 200 yards. I remember a couple of games where he barely threw for 100 yards. Not all his fault though. But if Brunell was playing good he would not have gotten benched.

But I agree. Defense must play better!

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Also why is this in the Draft section?

Thanks for noticing, I just moved it.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Yes I realize that. But what happens if Brunell has to start for lets say 5 weeks. Can we win with him as our QB? Will our passing game be at an NFL level? I doubt it. Our defense would have to go back to 04-05 form and carry the team.

Assuming our defense plays better, I definitely think we could play well for 3-5 games with Brunell as our QB. Like my signature line says, run the ball, stop the run. Don't put Brunell in a position to lose games. Pound our backs, play effective D, and Brunell can throw around 20 times a game. Also, when Brunell really starts to slip is when he gets dinged up and worn down. In a back role he'll be fresh. I'm fine with him as a back up.

That being said, I wouldn't mind bringing in Rattay as 3rd. He has way more upside than Collins, but would have to learn a huge playbook. We'd have to give him the vet minimum for it to make me happy. At least Rattay has a bunch of recent regular season experience. Collins hasn't had any significant playing time in forever.

[hooskins]

Again most people do not realize the significance of TURNOVERS. Last year we were last in league in generating turnovers. The year before we were in the top 5 towards the end of the season.

It is really simple, the more turnovers you create.
-more times you get the ball.
-more chances to score
-less pressure on the QB to drive the team all the way down the field into scoring position
-less time the D is on the field for one drive. They get off quicker and get some time to rest.


The NFL is a turnover game. You have to be winning the turnover ratio consistently to win games. It really doesn't matter who your QB is if you are winning in turnovers.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Terry Bradshaw has been very critical of NFL FO's recently because Tim Rattay is still on the market. After Jeff Garcia got signed, no QB on the market had a better year than Rattay did. Yet, he still sits cheap and unsigned on the open market.

It's hardly what I would consider a "critical move", but we should cut Todd Collins to make room for Rattay. Thinking toward the future, Brunell isn't going to be here in 2008. Neither will Collins. If we wait until next year to fill the very important role of backup QB, we are going to have to pay a premium on whoever we want to be our backup.

By signing Tim Rattay to a 3-4 year deal tomorrow and installing him as the third QB, we can get a cheap backup QB and avoid having to outbid someone on the market next year for a QB who we wouldn't be afraid to play. Collins is nothing more than a roster filler with ties to Saunders as is. Rattay SHOULD be a starting QB in this league.

As for next year, we would have 3 guys on the roster who would (should) all be starting for the Falcons. At the very least, given two preseasons, Rattay should be able to play at a moments notice at the top of his game.

Sign this guy! Cut Collins!

I agree with you on this one G, I believe we should cut Brunell as well, we have to move on and look to the future, why we hang onto a QB who we know can't get the job done in Brunell is beyond me. A backup is a guy who you hope has what it takes to become a starter and can possibly lead a team for a season if your starter goes down, we don't have that right now, it's time to cut the cord with these guys and press on!

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Again most people do not realize the significance of TURNOVERS. Last year we were last in league in generating turnovers. The year before we were in the top 5 towards the end of the season.

It is really simple, the more turnovers you create.
-more times you get the ball.
-more chances to score
-less pressure on the QB to drive the team all the way down the field into scoring position
-less time the D is on the field for one drive. They get off quicker and get some time to rest.


The NFL is a turnover game. You have to be winning the turnover ratio consistently to win games. It really doesn't matter who your QB is if you are winning in turnovers.

Exactly. When I said "assuming the defense is better," winning the turnover battle was included. D has gotta play better or nothing else will matter very much.

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I think you missing the logic of the argument.

1)What he is saying is that both Brunell and Garcia aren't amazing QBs, agreed?

2)But Garcia led a much better Philly team on a playoff run. Brunell had a much worst Washington team, but he pulled off a similar run.

3)Therefore since both QBs are about the same in terms of age and type of QB(short passes/scrambling), Brunell is the better choice because he succeeded in a worst situation. Plus he knows our system better than Garcia does.

All I'm saying is this.

1. Brunell will be 37 next season coming off major surgery to his throwing shoulder.
2. Brunell played below average on a bad team in 06.
3. Brunell played 3/4 a good season in 05. Played terrible in the playoffs. I mean terrible!
4. Brunell played terrible in 04.

With all that being said, and looking at the big picture, doesn't anyone think that it's time to maybe bring in legit competition for the back-up job? Doesn't this makes sense???? We have seen three years of this Brunell project. Why didn't we try and upgrade the back-up QB job? One hit away and we are back to Brunell and the short passing game. He limits our offense and he limits Al Saunders ability to open up the playbook.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Exactly. When I said "assuming the defense is better," winning the turnover battle was included. D has gotta play better or nothing else will matter very much.

I agree, yet so many people seem to put last season solely on the the shoulders of Brunell which is just unfair.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by offiss

I agree with you on this one G, I believe we should cut Brunell as well, we have to move on and look to the future, why we hang onto a QB who we know can't get the job done in Brunell is beyond me. A backup is a guy who you hope has what it takes to become a starter and can possibly lead a team for a season if your starter goes down, we don't have that right now, it's time to cut the cord with these guys and press on!

I agree. It's time to turn the page on Brunell. Rattay would fit in well here and I would have Collins and Rattay battle for #2. It's makes no sense to hold on to Brunell at this point.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I agree. It's time to turn the page on Brunell. Rattay would fit in well here and I would have Collins and Rattay battle for #2. It's makes no sense to hold on to Brunell at this point.

It also makes sense to have Collins here to help teach a younger guy the offense. Having 2 old backups who should both be gone next year doesn't seems smart.