Does prayer work?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Well, who says He's trying to have it both ways? One's body breaking down or ailing has nothing to do with God's goodness or his judgement. It's simply nature taking it's course.

Bodies like everything else give way to time and wear and tear. For God to defy the natural laws that govern this side of eternity, if you will, violate the very laws that He set in motion and violate his own authority in some way. There are laws that operate in time and there are laws that operate outside of time. By time I mean, the right here and now as we all know it. And by outside of time, I'm referring to eternity. But therein lies where we agree to disagree, and this is where faith and prayer becomes and will forever remain a mystery, one has to believe in something and someone on the other side of this life. Once that notion is settled, now we're in business and the idea of prayer and faith is somewhat attainable. It really is the starting point.

Faith/Prayer is much like a coin. For it to be legitimate currency and legal tender, it has to have what we call a "head" and a "tail". Well that's how prayer works, there is a manward side; man doing his part. Flip it over and there is Godward side to it; God doing his part. For it to "spend" and be considered "legal" in our society, the coin must have two different sides or else it's considered conterfeit. And I think this is the conclusion many believers and non-believers jump to. Some say, well God should deliver me from this and that or God didn't do this or that and they conclude He doesn't exist or they doubt. And then some will say for me to get to point B in life, I must do everything and be in control of everything in order to get there. Leaving no room for God to operate or take a majority stake in their life. It takes a little of both.

Yeah you said it - it all starts with the assumption that there is a God in the first place. Which is all based on belief. That's what the question on prayer comes down to.

Do you believe He exists, or don't you? If you work hard to be the pro golfer, and you believe in God, and you pray to him, and you make it as a pro golfer, you're going to believe he had a hand in it.

If you don't believe in God, and you don't pray, but you work hard to be a pro golfer, and you make it as a pro golfer, you're going to believe you had everything to do with it and that God had no hand in it.

Either way, you worked hard and you made it as a pro golfer. The only role God could possibly play is to make you BELIEVE or FEEL that he had a role. But can you prove he actually had a role? No. That's at the very core of faith - you have to jump to the conclusion (aka leap of faith) that He helped you.

So at its very core, this debate over prayer comes down to one thing: do you believe in God?