2 Qualms with the loss

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

I predicted a Dallas blowout and was surprised as to how well the Redskins offense was able to compete. The defensive secondary broke down, just as I thought they would. The secondary scheme just doesn't seem to work as well without Sean Taylor closing in on those long bombs.

I was pissed off the Skins couldn't pull off the victory. The game was right there for the taking. A couple of plays was the difference.

1) The Rocky McIntosh interception that was called back because of instant replay review.
(That was a catch. The ball never hit the ground.)
2) The Jason Campbell interception at the end of the game.
(He should have run the ball.)

I agree with your number 2 but that int the ball did hit the ground and he did not even have control of the ball when he roled over. I think if ball was not moving when he rolled over then it would have been a int.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

I dont know if the point has been brought up yet, didnt want to start a new thread. But was anyone else annoyed with the final series of the game? We needed 70 yards with 40 something seconds to go, no timeouts. Yet the skins are doing dump off passes. Where were the 30-40 yard passes? I know they dropped the D into coverage, but this is a passing league now, take a shot at least. Only 3 things can happen 2 of which are good (maybe 4, incomplete pass nothing happens) a completion GOOD, a pass interference GOOD, or an INT BAD. I loved how the skins opened up yesterday and took some chances, but there are still the flashes of conservatism (ie the 2 fourth and 1s that we attempted field goals instead of going for it). We could have beaten a great Dallas team.

You don't think Dallas is defending for that type of play? With that amount of time left there is only time for 4-5 plays? 5 at the most. You have to look at it as trying to get 10-15 yards a play w/out any incompletions plus get out of bounds. Very very tough thing to do.

Where we screwed up is not going for it on the 4th downs. Gibbs had to know that FG's were not going to get it done against Dallas. Especially the 50 yarder. That was just plain stupid.

[SmootSmack]

I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.

I don't personally think it was the right decision, but there certainly is a lot of logic behind it.

Simply put, we have an awful short yardage running game. So if you are going for it on 4th and 1, you either have to run at about 50-50 odds, or you have to take advantage of the run heavy defense, and pass.

To me, kicking the field goal there is no worse than trying to run Portis into a sea of white. Either way, half the time you are going to come away with nothing, and give Dallas the ball in good field position. In the event that the run is successful, you have guarenteed your team absoultely nothing but a shorter field goal attempt.

The right call in my opinion would have been a play action pass. Even against the run heavy defense, you are still only about half likely to complete the first down. However, the success is likely going to give or set you up for a touchdown.

Punting there is a worse decision than kicking the FG. Football statisticians seem to agree that 20 yards of field position against an average offense with an average defense is roughly equal to one point on the scoreboard. Dallas certainly has a better than average offense, and our defense was a lot worse than average on that day, so the value of a punt is even lower than that. A field goal attempt that the kicker will only hit half the time has a value of 1.5 points. That's not going to make a big difference in the course of the game, though, but Gibbs made a pretty decent call, I thought. Go for the points.

Point is, you can defend Gibbs' call in that situation statistically.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.

More importantly Gibbs needs to show confidence in his offense to get a yard.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't personally think it was the right decision, but there certainly is a lot of logic behind it.

Simply put, we have an awful short yardage running game. So if you are going for it on 4th and 1, you either have to run at about 50-50 odds, or you have to take advantage of the run heavy defense, and pass.

To me, kicking the field goal there is no worse than trying to run Portis into a sea of white. Either way, half the time you are going to come away with nothing, and give Dallas the ball in good field position. In the event that the run is successful, you have guarenteed your team absoultely nothing but a shorter field goal attempt.

The right call in my opinion would have been a play action pass. Even against the run heavy defense, you are still only about half likely to complete the first down. However, the success is likely going to give or set you up for a touchdown.

Punting there is a worse decision than kicking the FG. Football statisticians seem to agree that 20 yards of field position against an average offense with an average defense is roughly equal to one point on the scoreboard. Dallas certainly has a better than average offense, and our defense was a lot worse than average on that day, so the value of a punt is even lower than that. A field goal attempt that the kicker will only hit half the time has a value of 1.5 points. That's not going to make a big difference in the course of the game, though, but Gibbs made a pretty decent call, I thought. Go for the points.

Point is, you can defend Gibbs' call in that situation statistically.

What about knowing the situation of the game?? This is where Gibbs failed. He's on the road w/ a banged up team. Missing two starters in the secondary. You know Dallas is going to score points. The score is 7-0 and you have a chance to go up 14-0 if you convert one yard. He's gotta know that kicking FG's is just not going to get it done against Dallas. In this type of situation he's got to be thinking 7 instead of 3.

[BDBohnzie]

Playing devil's advocate...

Fourth and one, and the Skins don't convert. Not only do you not have the ball, but you never got the chance at points. At least with a field goal attempt, you are trying to put points on the board. He thought points instead of no points...

[TheBigD]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Where we screwed up is not going for it on the 4th downs. Gibbs had to know that FG's were not going to get it done against Dallas. Especially the 50 yarder. That was just plain stupid.

Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by TheBigD

Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.

what words of wisdom from a cowboys fan. i totally agree. its really easy to play monday morning qback, isnt it?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

Playing devil's advocate...

Fourth and one, and the Skins don't convert. Not only do you not have the ball, but you never got the chance at points. At least with a field goal attempt, you are trying to put points on the board. He thought points instead of no points...

Problem there is, Suisham has never been known to be an 'automatic' kicker from long distances.

You also lose yardage since the opponent takes over from the spot of the kick rather than where the play is stopped. So you're talking about 7-10 yards right there.

If we had Chip Lohmiller in his prime trying one from 50 yards, I'd agree. Lohmiller was always money in Texas Stadium. Bottom line for me is, Gibbs has been awfully timid on 4th and 1 this season.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by TheBigD

Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.

Very true. Hindsight's always 20/20.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I disagreed with the decision to kick a FG, but it certainly wasn't unreasonable. Suisham was on a roll prior to that missed FG attempt, we were leading the Cowboys by a TD, it was early in the game, Dallas had been stuffing the run, and the attempt was under 50 yards.

[70Chip]

Regarding Suisham, you have to bear in mind that Gibbs gets to watch him kick in warmups and that is perhaps a factor in that decision. He may have been drilling 50 yarders with ease for all we know.

Also, if you go for it and don't make it, the psychological blow to your offensive group is much greater than either not going for it or missing the kick. Something like that could have set the crowd off and gotten Dallas started a lot faster than what they did.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by TheBigD

Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.

Dude it's a freaking yard. If it was 4th and 6 or 7 then fine. Kick it. But 1 yard????? No way you kick it and risk giving the ball back on the 40. If the situation was reversed do you think Wade would kick it? No way in hell. Cause he has confidence in his guys and it shows.

Do you think Bill B. kicks it on 4th and 1 risking giving it back on the 40? No freakin way. He goes for it all the time. The guy is ruthless.

Again, Gibbs had to realize that Dallas was going to score TD's. Espeically with Taylor and Rogers out. He's on the road and a little outmaned. You can't go into Dallas, or TB with that type of attitude. It has cost us games this year. Also if you make it it breeds confidence in the offense. It gives the guys a little swagger and that is what this offense needs. Some confidence, arrogance and swagger. Dallas' offense sure has it. All of the guys on Dallas offense are so confident. You can just see it on the sidelines. Sorry but I didn't see that last year when Parcells was coaching. Alot of that comes from Wade and Garrett showing confidence in the players. Gibbs simply doesn't do this and it shows. I would bet any amount of $ if it was Al S. call we would have went for it.

[TheBigD]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Dude it's a freaking yard. If it was 4th and 6 or 7 then fine. Kick it. But 1 yard????? No way you kick it and risk giving the ball back on the 40. If the situation was reversed do you think Wade would kick it? No way in hell. Cause he has confidence in his guys and it shows.

Do you think Bill B. kicks it on 4th and 1 risking giving it back on the 40? No freakin way. He goes for it all the time. The guy is ruthless.

I am not sure what Wade or Bill B. would do in this situation, but I can tell you the fans wouldn't be happy if they didn't make it. Ok, so Gibbs doesn't kick and goes for it and doesn't make it, most fans would say what the heck man, PUNT it. Are all 4th and 1s gimmes?

I have been a fan and around fans long enough to know we are never happy when a play doesn't work and always seem to know better than the coaches on the sidelines. A good example is Dungy going for it on 4th and 1 inside the 10. If the team doesn't make it, everyone in America would call him stupid for not kicking the winning FG then. They made the first down and he is looking like a genius now.

There is a very fine line between being an idiot and a genious on all 4th and inches plays. It takes and idiot to go for it and the one who makes it is a genius.