Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think just about everyplayer on this team has had a bash them thread except for I think Cooley. The problem is we have ran out of players to bash and now its falling on the coaching staff and most of all Timeout, Timeout Gibbs. Sorry I had to do that.

No you didn't. And I really don't think we "bash" players nearly enough. We don't even "bash" the other coaches. But hey, it is what it is. I hope to one day be as successful as Gibbs has been in his career so everyone can try to knock me down as well.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

No you didn't. And I really don't think we "bash" players nearly enough. We don't even "bash" the other coaches. But hey, it is what it is. I hope to one day be as successful as Gibbs has been in his career so everyone can try to knock me down as well.

What is the equivilant in your business of winning 3 Lombardis and (is it?) 3 cups?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

What is the equivilant in your business of winning 3 Lombardis and (is it?) 3 cups?

I have no idea

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I have no idea

142 Cable Ace Awards.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

No you didn't. And I really don't think we "bash" players nearly enough. We don't even "bash" the other coaches. But hey, it is what it is. I hope to one day be as successful as Gibbs has been in his career so everyone can try to knock me down as well.

I'm very surprised that you have missed all of the bashing of players and coaches as much as you post on this site. Its like after every loss and even after some wins the bashing starts. If you look at my post over the past four years I have done nothing but support JG and this team. When everyone was bashing I was thinking positive and hoping that things would change. Those two timeouts did not bother me one bit it was those three running plays when we had not been able to run the ball all day and just needed one first down to win. Gibbs went to the same old plays which if we could go back over the past 3 to 4 years and could see how that jumbo line has performed we could probably have a 20 yard pass that gained more yards than the 30 to 50 time they have run that failing jumbo package. Gibbs has just shown no signs of changing the thing that do not work and keeps doing them over and over again. Then add up all the errors the coaching has done over the years and I just think its time to move on. Like I said if Gibbs stays for another year he has my full support and I would love for him to prove me wrong.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'm very surprised that you have missed all of the bashing of players and coaches as much as you post on this site. Its like after every loss and even after some wins the bashing starts. If you look at my post over the past four years I have done nothing but support JG and this team. When everyone was bashing I was thinking positive and hoping that things would change. Those two timeouts did not bother me one bit it was those three running plays when we had not been able to run the ball all day and just needed one first down to win. Gibbs went to the same old plays which if we could go back over the past 3 to 4 years and could see how that jumbo line has performed we could probably have a 20 yard pass that gained more yards than the 30 to 50 time they have run that failing jumbo package. Gibbs has just shown no signs of changing the thing that do not work and keeps doing them over and over again. Then add up all the errors the coaching has done over the years and I just think its time to move on. Like I said if Gibbs stays for another year he has my full support and I would love for him to prove me wrong.

Well see, you illustrate my point right there. Does Saunders calls the plays or does he not? As soon as we see a running play, everyone instinctively says "Oh well that's Gibbs handcuffing the team again." But is he even calling the plays there?

I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.

Look I'm not saying absolve Gibbs of any blame. I'm just echoing 70Chip's well-founded sentiments that more needs to go the players way. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well see, you illustrate my point right there. Does Saunders calls the plays or does he not? As soon as we see a running play, everyone instinctively says "Oh well that's Gibbs handcuffing the team again." But is he even calling the plays there?

I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.

Look I'm not saying absolve Gibbs of any blame. I'm just echoing 70Chip's well-founded sentiments that more needs to go the players way. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

That is part of the problem..who is calling the plays in crunch situations? red zone, forth down, 4th quarter, 2 min drill? the shroud of confusion from the fan perspective is problematic. I personally believe gibbs takes over in the critical situations...otherwise, what does he actually do? he'd be like a bowden at FSU- a figurehead, in which case, why do we care if he's there or not.

That is an excellent point SS, there is def. no excusing the Defense's play...they constantly give up long drives in crunch time too...very frustrating and unacceptable...i think people are more likely to give them a break there bc ST wasn't there...
in my opinion, the Defense is not NEARLY as good as we think...or would like to believe...

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

That is part of the problem..who is calling the plays in crunch situations? red zone, forth down, 4th quarter, 2 min drill? the shroud of confusion from the fan perspective is problematic. I personally believe gibbs takes over in the critical situations...otherwise, what does he actually do? he'd be like a bowden at FSU- a figurehead, in which case, why do we care if he's there or not.

That is an excellent point SS, there is def. no excusing the Defense's play...they constantly give up long drives in crunch time too...very frustrating and unacceptable...i think people are more likely to give them a break there bc ST wasn't there...
in my opinion, the Defense is not NEARLY as good as we think...or would like to believe...

There is no doubt in my mind that Gibbs has major influence once we get to crunch time and end of the game situations. No doubt.

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.

Between the injury to Springs and the defensive line not getting any kind of pressure, Edwards had all day to throw last Sunday...the secondary gave up more than one big pass play.

The Bills were 5-13 on 3rd downs. Looking at the drive log, the Skins gave up 9 on 3rd and 4, 16 on 3rd and 6 (same drive, ended in a punt), 29 on a 3rd and 7, 9 on 3rd and 5, and 54 on a 3rd and 6. Last 3 were all in the 2nd half, and all set up FGs by Buffalo.

However, at the time, there was only one starter out on the field (Landry) and the rest were 2nd and even 3rd string backups. Any QB worth their weight in Fruit Roll-ups are going to find open receivers in a patch-work secondary. Edwards did just that as the momentum swung in the Bills' favor during the 2nd half.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

Between the injury to Springs and the defensive line not getting any kind of pressure, Edwards had all day to throw last Sunday...the secondary gave up more than one big pass play.

The Bills were 5-13 on 3rd downs. Looking at the drive log, the Skins gave up 9 on 3rd and 4, 16 on 3rd and 6 (same drive, ended in a punt), 29 on a 3rd and 7, 9 on 3rd and 5, and 54 on a 3rd and 6. Last 3 were all in the 2nd half, and all set up FGs by Buffalo.

However, at the time, there was only one starter out on the field (Landry) and the rest were 2nd and even 3rd string backups. Any QB worth their weight in Fruit Roll-ups are going to find open receivers in a patch-work secondary. Edwards did just that as the momentum swung in the Bills' favor during the 2nd half.

That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.

And it would have been if the offensive line didn't break down protection inside their own 5 and give up a safety...

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.

No doubt. Enough said right there. The D was not the problem.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well see, you illustrate my point right there. Does Saunders calls the plays or does he not? As soon as we see a running play, everyone instinctively says "Oh well that's Gibbs handcuffing the team again." But is he even calling the plays there?

I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.

Look I'm not saying absolve Gibbs of any blame. I'm just echoing 70Chip's well-founded sentiments that more needs to go the players way. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

It's been well established that Saunders calls the plays, but it's been equally established that Gibbs sets the game plan and the tone for the plays he wants.. If Gibbs says 'Let's take some time off the clock' that means Saunders has to call runs and short passes to adhere to his wishes.. Even if he's not calling the plays his fingerprints are all over it..

I think it's time for Gibbs to go.. His record speaks for itself, he's under .500 and we're heading in the wrong direction.. ANY other coach would either be gone by now or there wouldn't be one single rational person on here saying 'give him more time.' Here are the ugly facts:
Below .500 record
5 losses with a 2nd half lead this year-15 overall since '04,
Currently on a 4 game losing streak
Every year a losing streak of more than 3 games
One (ONE!) winning streak of more than 2 games since '04
One playoff appearance
One winning record since '04
Team is older and more snug to the salary cap (although we always work that out) than it was when he took over..

How can anyone convince me that it's working out for the betterment of the franchise and/or there is any reason to expect/anticipate/believe that next year will be any better under the current regime..

For Campbell's continuity sake I hope we keep Saunders, but the rest of the staff, Grilliams included, can be shown the door as far as I am concerned.