F... gas prices

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I never claimed the government should not or does not regulate gasoline. The government undoubtedly regulates gasoline, both directly and indirectly. Those little stickers on the gas pumps are mandated by the government. The government taxes gasoline. Gas station owners are subject to a whole host of regulations. The government also indirectly regulates gasoline by subjecting oil explorers, producers, refiners, etc. to heavy regulation. The government regulates fuel efficiency standards in cars. I am just unclear as to how the government can regulate gas in a way that solves the problem that we are currently experiencing.

Please name a single realistic alternative to gasoline. Just as the oil lobby "has a vested interest in riding this out," other large multi-billion dollar companies would stand to make trillions upon trillions if they could readily develop a cheap, efficient, and green alternative. So, I don't quite understand why people cite oil company conspiracy theories as the real reason why we haven't found an alternative to gas, when there are trillions of reasons why existing powerful companies have been, are, and will be exploring alternatives.

My wording was poor in my previous post. I'm not saying the alternatives exist in a viable form. I meant that there is no reason they should not exist, if the proper motivations were there over the past 35 years. That's the regulation that the government failed to provide - incentives to develop alternative fuels that actually motivate.

The past 10 years have proved beyond a doubt that America is absolutely and irrevocably dependent on oil. What other resource would we stand for a quadruple increase in price in such a short period? It is the government's responsibility to ensure scarcity isn't a problem for a resource that the government depends on to that extent.

It's also not as simple as some random company inventing a new engine and making trillions. The investment required to create an alternate fuel is a barrier to entry to almost every company out there. It would take a huge chunk out of even big oil. It's not just inventing a car that runs on corn, it's creating the infrastructure to allow people to get their corn refills (or whatever).

In the end, though, we are where we are, and that can't be changed. The government shouldn't get a free pass for not addressing the issue earlier, though.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

It's also not as simple as some random company inventing a new engine and making trillions.

It could be just that simple. Read this very interesting Newsweek article. I don't believe the process will be quick, cheap or easy, but with trillions of dollars to be made, the incentive and investment dollars are there.

Also, I'm not sure what role the government should play in this mess. Remember, our government is the one that tried to kill Castro with exploding cigars, couldn't deliver drinking water to Katrina victims, and pays $500 for toilet seats. What makes people optimistic that they can solve a problem that greedy multi-billion dollar companies can't?

[saden1]

Good news everybody...Shell, Exxon Mobile, Total, Chevron and BP are final stages of negotiating a no-bid contract with the Iraqi Oil Ministry. We're in for some treats.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

It could be just that simple. Read this very interesting Newsweek article. I don't believe the process will be quick, cheap or easy, but with trillions of dollars to be made, the incentive and investment dollars are there.

Also, I'm not sure what role the government should play in this mess. Remember, our government is the one that tried to kill Castro with exploding cigars, couldn't deliver drinking water to Katrina victims, and pays $500 for toilet seats. What makes people optimistic that they can solve a problem that greedy multi-billion dollar companies can't?

Now? Not much. This is a problem for the market to solve and the American people to bear in the interim (via high gas prices). I was speaking historically and from the perspective of, does it make sense to turn over more land (or off-shore rights) to the oil companies when they've shown so little interest, historically, in coming up with alternatives. I understand the economic argument for handing over the drilling rights, but I think it's short-sighted, because the current course is not sustainable and there has to be some incentive to change it.

Interesting article. There was also a National Geographic article a while back that discussed some of the hurdles to biofuels.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

Now? Not much. This is a problem for the market to solve and the American people to bear in the interim (via high gas prices). I was speaking historically and from the perspective of, does it make sense to turn over more land (or off-shore rights) to the oil companies when they've shown so little interest, historically, in coming up with alternatives. I understand the economic argument for handing over the drilling rights, but I think it's short-sighted, because the current course is not sustainable and there has to be some incentive to change it.

Interesting article. There was also a National Geographic article a while back that discussed some of the hurdles to biofuels.

How do you sell alternative fuels when they are more expensive than gas? The answer is simple. You can't. Now that gas has gone up so much it startes to bring alternatives into play and I think we will see allot of new ideas hitting the market. There just has not been a market for alternatives. I also think we would be surprised how much has allraedy been spen on alternatives.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How do you sell alternative fuels when they are more expensive than gas? The answer is simple. You can't. Now that gas has gone up so much it startes to bring alternatives into play and I think we will see allot of new ideas hitting the market. There just has not been a market for alternatives. I also think we would be surprised how much has allraedy been spen on alternatives.

That's where I believe the government should have played a role in providing incentives to develop cost-effective alternatives over the last 35 years.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

That's where I believe the government should have played a role in providing incentives to develop cost-effective alternatives over the last 35 years.

You previously noted that the cost of developing and bringing cheap alternative fuel sources to market is exorbitant. If that's true, the government would presumably have to have shelled out hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars in subsidies or tax breaks to fast-track the process. Right?

People are inherently short-sighted. Congressmen and women look to the problems facing the country now and that will emerger prior to the next election cycle. CEOs of public companies look to the next quarter's profits so they don't get their asses handed to them by their shareholders and boards. Your average Joes don't buy solar panels, even though it will save them money over the long haul and otherwise generally act in their short-term best interests. Our government acts the same way. It sucks, but that's the way I see it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

You previously noted that the cost of developing and bringing cheap alternative fuel sources to market is exorbitant. If that's true, the government would presumably have to have shelled out hundreds of billions or even trillions of dollars in subsidies or tax breaks to fast-track the process. Right?

People are inherently short-sighted. Congressmen and women look to the problems facing the country now and that will emerger prior to the next election cycle. CEOs of public companies look to the next quarter's profits so they don't get their asses handed to them by their shareholders and boards. Your average Joes don't buy solar panels, even though it will save them money over the long haul and otherwise generally act in their short-term best interests. Our government acts the same way. It sucks, but that's the way I see it.

Thats the point when gas was 90 cents who was thinking about alternative fuels? No One. Now its is an issue everyone is. For example. Lets say the goverment came out with ethanol which cars could totaly run off but it cost $1.40 a gallon while gas was 90 cents a gallon. Who is going to get elected or run on a platform of switching to the E80. They could but they would loose in a land slide. We as consumers and voters could shoulder just as much blame as anyone but this problem is not just a US problem it is a world problem. As far as I know other countries have done the same thing and are in the same boat. I know that we drive bigger cars but we all depend on expensive gas.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

That's where I believe the government should have played a role in providing incentives to develop cost-effective alternatives over the last 35 years.

Woulda coulda shoulda. I'm not sure how that helps us now?

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Woulda coulda shoulda. I'm not sure how that helps us now?

About as much as your post contributed to this thread.