For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[30gut]

Look you makes some good points, but how can you assign all the blame to JC who has improved and a first year/last minute HC that didn't even have the time/chance to bring in his own staff except for an OC that doesn't even know the WCO and an assistant from St.Olaf?


The offensive line doesn't deserve any blame?
Offensive line coaching?

Receivers not getting open? Dropping passes? Not making big plays?
WR coaching?

The main thing that bothers me about your post is that you gloss over the 2 most important factors in the Ravens and Falcons offensive success. The
offensive coordinator/offensive line coach.

Can Zorn get some credit for taking a team, that everyone wrote off at the start of the season, to 6-2 now 7-7 when people picked them to go 4-11?

Can Zorn get some credit for putting out an creative offense during the 6-2 run?

Can Zorn get some credit for holding it all together while serving as HC/OC/QB coach?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

If Campbell is getting sacked 2.43 times per game, many times because his first option isn't open and he pumps but doesn't throw, then sits and pats the ball without automically knowing the best available option left or throwing it away (or pulling down & running like that super running QB Fitzpatrick!! ha!), that is SOMEONE'S fault right? QB? QB coach? Offensive Passing Scheme with not enough viable options & blockers??

If that was the case, you'd be correct, but over the last few weeks he's been getting sacked because the OL is making incorrect blitz pick-up calls, is missing assignments, or getting physically beaten. JC has actually saved a good number of sacks by getting out of the pocket or getting the ball out quickly.

Again... let me say... I am not saying we need to fire either, I never even came close to saying it... I am just saying that it is time to use the "inexperienced" excuse for both... they HAVE to improve IMMENSELY for this team not to become the Lions/Bengals/Rams of the next couple of years... these other teams (Falcons/Dolphins/Ravens) have done so in months, not years

I agree both Zorn and Campbell need to improve, but they are not the main culprits for our current stretch of poor performances. I challenge you to name me a productive offense with a poor OL....don't try to research and find one, because it doesn't exist.

Oh, also, for those saying Zorn didn't fumble the ball on the goal line ... he called SELLERS number TWICE in a row!! Portis hasn't scored a touchdown in what, 6-7 weeks? Maybe, if he would have used our fullback to plow an opening for our once MVP candidate RB...

I agree with you here, bad play selection by Zorn.

And... those saying our D is much to blame for yesterday, sure, ok, they were worse than usual, but... we went three and out for the first quarter and a half of the game against one of the league's worst defenses!!! Just don't forget how bad the offense was to start the game (and every game over the past 6)

our defense surrendered 20 points, against a Bungles team that is averaging 12.4 point per game, I believe it was 11.x prior to Sunday. They definitely are responsible for this loss just as much as the offense.

[Hail to the Redskins]

good post... but I disagree with the sacks assessment. Many sacks lately have been from the other team having more rushers than we have protectors in my opinion... but that's fine

Also... the defense gave up the TD early, but the Bungleds DID start the drive on the 35... not a good excuse, and the did performed below par, but... anyway, our offense should be able to score more than 20 against the Cincinnati Bengals too...

[GusFrerotte]

To lay 100% of the blame on JC and even Zorn is not fair, but in the real world of pro football if a team isn't clicking on offense the guy(s) that get the axe are the HC and/or the QB. Zorn's WCO needs to be gutted altogether or at the very least heavily modified somehow in the offseason if he doesn't get canned. JC gets another year in my book to show us if he is a real talent or just an average QB. AFter '09 he will have had the same time as Frerotte had to show us what he can do, and if he has another subpar year simply don't resign him. To be honest, I expect that to be what will precisely happen. Although he has shown some improvement, he still is slow on the development curve for the time he has been here.

[skinsqc]

We are never going anywhere with jason cambell as our qb.This team was struggling to score points last year and was heading for a 6 and 10 season.Lucky for them jc got hurt and all are offensive problems followed him to the bench.Cannot read defenses does not make quick enough decisions.play colt or hell even give the man that carried us to the playoffs last year a chance.

[redskinsfan1974]

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSE HAS SCORED 6 TIMES. THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORDS. THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WITH 4 PLAYERS HAVING A BREAKTHROUGH YEAR: Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY HAVE Bill Parcells WE HAVE VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD. ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSE THAT HAVE SCORED A TD AND THE REDSKINS HAVE 0. THEN, TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY. WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE? AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE'S HAVING A DECENT YEAR. SOMETIMES HE MAY HOLD ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG, ALSO HIS WR HAS DROPPED SOME BALLS, TOO. ALSO, ONE LAST THING... THEY STATED THAT OUR DEFENSE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD. WITH THAT SAID, FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. IT'S JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC. I THINK THEY NEED TO KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL. WITH THE RIGHT OFF-SEASON MOVES, WE WILL BE IN THE HUNT NEXT YEAR.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1974

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSIVE HAS SCORE 6 TIMES THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORD THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WHO 4 PLAYERS HAVING BREAKOUT YEAR Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY GOT Bill Parcells WE GOT VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSIVE SCORE TD BUT THE REDSKINS AND THEN TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE HAVING DECENT YEAR SOMETIME HE MAY HOLDING ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG HIS WR HAVE DROP SOME BALL TOO ALSO ONE LAST THING THEY STATED THAT ARE DEFENSIVE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD WITH THAT SAID FOOTBALL IS TEAM SPORT ITS JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC I THINK THEY NEED KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL WITH THE RIGHT OFF SEASON MOVE WE WILL BE HUNT NEXT YEAR

Good points, but hard to read with the all caps

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1974

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSE HAS SCORED 6 TIMES. THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORDS. THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WITH 4 PLAYERS HAVING A BREAKTHROUGH YEAR: Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY HAVE Bill Parcells WE HAVE VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD. ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSE THAT HAVE SCORED A TD AND THE REDSKINS HAVE 0. THEN, TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY. WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE? AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE'S HAVING A DECENT YEAR. SOMETIMES HE MAY HOLD ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG, ALSO HIS WR HAS DROPPED SOME BALLS, TOO. ALSO, ONE LAST THING... THEY STATED THAT OUR DEFENSE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD. WITH THAT SAID, FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. IT'S JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC. I THINK THEY NEED TO KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL. WITH THE RIGHT OFF-SEASON MOVES, WE WILL BE IN THE HUNT NEXT YEAR.

OK, so just because the Falcons have scored 2 TDs on defense and Dolphins have scored 1, are you trying to say that are far better than our D?? We have forced more turnovers than Atlanta and have the same INTs as Miami... and again.. we only allow 19.0 points per game which is the only defensive stat that matters! (ATL - 20.1, MIA - 19.2)... I'll grant you that Baltimore's D is better, but they have scored over 100 points more than us on offense!

As far as 4 Falcons having "breakthrough years" ...
1st - Ryan is a ROOKIE QB, does he qualify for a "breakthrough year"?
... and 2nd -You are kind of making my point... I mean why do you think they are having "breakthrough years"? The offense that was just installed this season and the rookie QB directing it?

Also, people mentioning schedules or who people have played, etc remember that we are 2-2 vs teams which are 5-47-1 vs everyone else...

well, I guess I agree with you about Cerrato, but you could blame him for everyone and erverything...
but again, I am saying that THIS SEASON falls on Zorn mostly and Campbell a little...

I am not saying get rid of them... I was just pointing out that I our pass offense is what has kept us from making a real run this season... and that I am not sold on either of them blowing people away in this department next year... I hope I'm wrong there, but...

[funked]

Originally Posted by GreekSkin

Threads like these remind me how weird we can be as fans at times. Before the season started most of our fan base (and others) agreed that the Skins would struggle to win on a consistent basis and would likely be out of the playoffs. After our fast start it seems those same people overrated our team and thought we would have no problem getting into the playoffs. Now that we've hit a pretty bad patch those people feel "betrayed" when in truth our team is pretty much where we expected them to be in the first place if not better. If more people would take a step back and see just how early it is to have too many expectations of our team we'd be a lot better off.

Reading this go-nowhere thread was worth it just for this gem. For me, the season was a success at the back-to-back wins at dallas and philly. This season hasn't been a great one, but Zorn and Campbell need to stay if only to help improve our reputation as career killers for coaches.

Personally, I think coaching only goes so far in this league. Better players + easier schedule = wins IMO. If I'm not mistaken, Norv Turner took us the closest to the Super Bowl only after a lot of mediocre years. The team can do better with THIS coach.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GreekSkin

Threads like these remind me how weird we can be as fans at times. Before the season started most of our fan base (and others) agreed that the Skins would struggle to win on a consistent basis and would likely be out of the playoffs. After our fast start it seems those same people overrated our team and thought we would have no problem getting into the playoffs. Now that we've hit a pretty bad patch those people feel "betrayed" when in truth our team is pretty much where we expected them to be in the first place if not better. If more people would take a step back and see just how early it is to have too many expectations of our team we'd be a lot better off.

well said

[Redskin Jim]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Why did Zorn and JC perfomance decline as they gained experience through the season? The team faded when Portis did. I really believe the team and coaches relied to heavily on Portis.

Portis and the team faded with the health of the o line. As our old lineman broke down along the way of the season, so did our offensive production. Where we were squeaking out games by 3 or 4 pts in the first half of the season, we couldnt keep up with opponents offenses in the second half of season. And it would also help if our defensive front could pressure the qb. Long story short: we need a major overhaul on both lines!