How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.

And if I remember right, two years ago the Patriots' draft picks didn't do jack shit their first year in the pros. But they contributed in their second year

Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.

Great job.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who was it here yesterday that said the Redskins would be perennially in the playoffs if the front office just listened to the fans? That was funny. So let's see Colt starts at QB, Mix and McMullen at wideout, two backs with Mason and McCullough, we'll trade down then up back down again to get 8 picks from 3 different teams in the 2nd round, hire a "real GM" of course...

And they would sign a whole bunch of offensive linemen under 25 yrs old JUST because they are under 25 years old. And don't forget the infamous "Jason Campbell for Chris Simms" trade.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who was it here yesterday that said the Redskins would be perennially in the playoffs if the front office just listened to the fans? That was funny. So let's see Colt starts at QB, Mix and McMullen at wideout, two backs with Mason and McCullough, we'll trade down then up back down again to get 8 picks from 3 different teams in the 2nd round, hire a "real GM" of course...

Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
3) Fire Stan Hixon
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

The FO is damned if they do or damned if they don't. As Matty said, everyone thinks they can run the team better. All FOs are going to make bad decisions, and all teams are not going to be able to address everything or have quality starters at every single position. Even the mighty NE Patriots just gave up a 4th rounder for a guy (Greg Lewis) that's at best the 3rd best wideout, had mediocre numbers last season, and is pushing 30 yrs. old.

Now I think you're bringing up an issue (giving up picks for Taylor) that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Yes, giving up a two draft picks (well I think of it as one pick, b/c the other pick is not that valuable) for Jason Taylor was a mistake, big deal, get over it, complaining about it is not going to bring those two picks back. The issue at hand is that people are complaining that our two WRs did not have Pro Bowl stats in their first year. Which is ridiculous to expect this, given that most players need time to develop. My whole point is, if you mention the words "let's build through the draft" don't turn around and rant that Kelly and Thomas need to be cut b/c they didn't produce their first year.

I was strictly referring to the comment that the FO is Damned if they do or damned if they don't. To put it in the simplest terms, the FO did not address all of its needs last season in the draft. Then turned around and gave up picks for absolutely nothing in return. Now, with less picks we cannot fill the holes in the roster that were not addressed in the last draft. Right now our needs are more glaring and we did not pick up enough FA's to compensate for the draft picks that we are lacking either.

We all want to build through the draft, but at the same time we want to stay competitive within the division. As soon as it was apparent that we were not going to be doing much building due to lack of picks, then the focus should have shifted to FA acquisitions. The quality was there with Hall, Haynesworth, and Dockery. The quantity was not because we still have needs that have not and will not be addressed, even after the draft.

I am not even talking about the WR's needing to step up or flop or anything else. I was addressing the duality of fans. I just explained why sometimes they bitch about the FO not keeping draft picks; and why they bitch when they don't go hard in Free Agency. This year we had no picks, therefore we should have hit FA hard...3 players is not hard when you let more than that walk away and you had a full draft worth of needs before hand.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
3) Fire Stan Hixon
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches

and you forgot that every wide out we have has to be at least 6'5

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't forget:

1) Give Jason Campbell a long term deal
2) Cut Jason Campbell
3) Fire Stan Hixon
4) Get Zorn more help in terms of assistant coaches

Oh man i'm glad someone else understands we need to jettison Hixon...

[70Chip]

What's the point of having a discussion forum if you can't criticize the team's decision makers from time to time? We all begin with the proposition that we WANT the Redskins to win. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. We'd be at the other one.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year.

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year.

I doubt that. We didn't draft him.

[GTripp0012]

Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

What's the point of having a discussion forum if you can't criticize the team's decision makers from time to time? We all begin with the proposition that we WANT the Redskins to win. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. We'd be at the other one.

I don't think any of us are saying that you shouldn't criticize the FO. The past couple of threads are criticizing fans that on the one hand want to "build through the draft" and on the other hand want the wideout rookies. Or make the point that if we only have 4 draft picks, then the team needed to use free agency to meet its needs.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.

my bad. I read an article speculating (with detailed analysis) which teams would receive comp picks and in which rounds. i took it at face value. i dont think a team has to draft a player to receive a comp pick, but its my understanding the player has to be a UFA because his contract expired, but if we technically "released" him, then obviously we wouldnt get anything.

personally, i dont think 7th round picks hold much value anyways. chances are, the player we would take in the 7th round would be a FA anyways. Yeah, i know we found Horton in the 7th last year, but there were only 3 picks in the draft after we selected him, if i remember, and i doubt any of those 3 teams were hoping to pounce on Horton. If we hadnt drafted him, he very likely would have been a FA and we could have signed him anyways.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't think any of us are saying that you shouldn't criticize the FO. The past couple of threads are criticizing fans that on the one hand want to "build through the draft" and on the other hand want the wideout rookies. Or make the point that if we only have 4 draft picks, then the team needed to use free agency to meet its needs.

right, but the argument that we didnt use free agency is stupid. Free agency isnt even two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively. I dont see how anyone can argue we havent used free agency to meet our needs. We've been one of the most aggressive teams out there.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

personally, i dont think 7th round picks hold much value anyways. chances are, the player we would take in the 7th round would be a FA anyways. Yeah, i know we found Horton in the 7th last year, but there were only 3 picks in the draft after we selected him, if i remember, and i doubt any of those 3 teams were hoping to pounce on Horton. If we hadnt drafted him, he very likely would have been a FA and we could have signed him anyways.

Agreed. Congrats on post # 500.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Thanks to the same technicality that we exploited to spread MB's cap hit over 6 years when restructuring his deal, it also means his departure from Washington was technically a "release" and therefore he's not part of the compensatory picks formula.

You 100% sure on that?