Joe Gibbs...YOU CAN'T BE F*@%ING CONSERVATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!!!

Daseal · 12-27-2004, 04:42 PM

Put yourself in Ramseys shoes? You're not thinking "Wow, he's really trying to protect me!" He's thinking "Asshole doesn't believe in me."

cpayne5 · 12-27-2004, 05:04 PM

Gibbs has a one on one meeting with Ramsey every week I'm sure, so he knows exactly what's going on.

Redskins_P · 12-27-2004, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Put yourself in Ramseys shoes? You're not thinking "Wow, he's really trying to protect me!" He's thinking "Asshole doesn't believe in me."

it's probably more like "shit, if I don't get rid of the ball soon, my ass is getting pummeled"

MTK · 12-27-2004, 05:13 PM

At least he's not worried about losing years off his life anymore.

CrazyCanuck · 12-27-2004, 05:47 PM

The playcalling at the end was fine. It was a textbook clock rundown and not many coaches would have (or should have) run it differently.

Some points:

- I thought Antonio Brown looked great early on. Great speed and he looked dangerous every time. Of course the fumble was INEXCUSABLE, but there's no point killing this kid, I'd give him another shot or two.

- The fumble really hurt us. We forced them 3 and out, but we could have had the ball and made them use all their timeouts first. Instead they got a second chance to use all their timeouts and get the ball one more time when the game shoulda been over.

- Washington's offside penalty also hurt. It stopped the clock with like 45 seconds left and let the Cowboys settle down and regroup.

- Taylor screwed up at the end but I have to put more blame on the play call. We got caught in no-man's-land. No pressure yet not safe enough deep. It was just like one of my online Madden games. Springs was wasted out in the flat, and the game shouldn't be put in the hands of a rookie hoping he makes the right decision in deep coverage. It's not the first time Taylor has screwed up in deep coverage.

- I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is not a "great" defense. We like to jump around and talk trash when guys like Clemons are sacking poor Vinny, but we're not mature enough to close out a game when it's in the D's hands. The same thing happened in the Browns game. The Patriots would never give up a play like that. Once we took the lead the game shoulda been over. The offense didn't help much but the bottom line is we had a 4 point lead with 1 minute left and the ball at the 50. No D should blow that game, especially not a 'great' D.

- That was one of the most painful losses ever.

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 12-27-2004, 07:26 PM

one of the main reasons the skins could'nt win this year was their lack of one of the game's fundamentals,catching the ball.i can't tell you, and if you have watched the games you know,how many dropped passes the skins have had this year.and there have also been a huge amount of overthrows,and the whole team just has'nt had that killer instint late in the 4th quarter when they needed it most.hey,that's my 2cents worth.

kingerock · 12-27-2004, 07:46 PM

I know alot of you see this game as being lost by Gibbs or the Defense or Sean Taylor, but to me, I see the game being won by Tuna and a WR named Patrick Crayton. "Where was Taylor, why was Springs playing the flats?" Because Keyshawn was in the slot and they were both looking to make the play on the guy who to that point had done EVERYTHING positive for the cowboys in that game. If Taylor plays more wide, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If Springs plays deeper, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If you are going to gamble, that's the gamble you take. Let the undrafted player alone and cover Keyshawn. Patrick Crayton made 2 big plays in the game and was the hero. If you remember a 4th and long before that TD was caught by the rookie too. Just like we've had guys step up and make things happen to win, Dallas had their guy do it in that game.

gibbsisgod · 12-27-2004, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingerock

I know alot of you see this game as being lost by Gibbs or the Defense or Sean Taylor, but to me, I see the game being won by Tuna and a WR named Patrick Crayton. "Where was Taylor, why was Springs playing the flats?" Because Keyshawn was in the slot and they were both looking to make the play on the guy who to that point had done EVERYTHING positive for the cowboys in that game. If Taylor plays more wide, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If Springs plays deeper, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If you are going to gamble, that's the gamble you take. Let the undrafted player alone and cover Keyshawn. Patrick Crayton made 2 big plays in the game and was the hero. If you remember a 4th and long before that TD was caught by the rookie too. Just like we've had guys step up and make things happen to win, Dallas had their guy do it in that game.

WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON ANYWAY?

SKINSnCANES · 12-27-2004, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON ANYWAY?

lol, just because there arent many positive things about our team doesnt mean that we arent fans. Its not our fault that we lost. Mabye it is all YOUR faults, since I went to the game I was there trying to be the 12th man. next year i expect everyone there and no dallas fans in the crowd! haha, jk

skinsguy · 12-27-2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINFAN63

one of the main reasons the skins could'nt win this year was their lack of one of the game's fundamentals,catching the ball.i can't tell you, and if you have watched the games you know,how many dropped passes the skins have had this year.and there have also been a huge amount of overthrows,and the whole team just has'nt had that killer instint late in the 4th quarter when they needed it most.hey,that's my 2cents worth.

Hey bigred! We're not supposed to talk about the lack of execution on here....its more acceptable for us to blame Joe Gibbs for everything and to crucify him, otherwise we will be blamed for being mindless sheep that will follow Gibbs around pointlessly.

Daseal · 12-27-2004, 09:51 PM

We had a total of one catchable pass dropped last game. It ended up being an interception. That's NOT exactly an excuse. Earlier in the year the WRs had some bad drops. However most of them they had to re-adjust to Ramsey again. A different velocity on the ball and both receivers told the WP that catching a right handers ball is different than a lefthanders. Adjustments were made and they seem to be about on par with other WR combos in the league as far as dropped passes.

The TEAM hasn't had a killer instinct? I know that screenpass is often the finishing blow to a defense, but how can you say the team hasn't had killer instinct. The playcalling has been so weak it's ridiculous. One first down to ice the game, we don't even attempt it. What's the difference between them having 2:30 left and 1 timeout and 2:30 left and none. Very little. Especially if we get a first down where we can just about seal the deal.

skinsguy: It seems many people on this board are such fanboys they absolutely refuse to think that what Gibbs is doing isn't working. Brian Mitchell, a former player, has put the blame square on Gibbs for several games. Along with other ex-players on the comcast post-game show. I didn't see their thoughts this week. So obviously it's not just those of us on the board thinking that. It's people who played the game at a pro level, and with Joe Gibbs. Please, remove the wool from your eyes.

It's not 100% his fault. I'd say 85% of it goes on the coach. Just like you said Spurriers problems were because of his coaching skills, Gibbs is failing on his side of the ball. While Spurrier didn't light up the score board on a consistant basis, he certainly got a lot less support from the defense.

MTK · 12-28-2004, 09:47 AM

85% on the coach? So what are the players, just pawns or robots that the coaches have complete control over?

Gibbs has made his share of mistakes this year, but the coach can't be held responsible for dropped passes, poorly executed plays, dumb mental mistakes, etc. At some point the players have to shoulder some blame too. So I guess if Gibbs is getting 85% of the blame that only leaves 15% on the players? I think that's letting them off the hook way too easily.

Maybe I'm a fanboy for believing in a coach who brought this team 3 Championships, but at least there's some merit there. What can be said of fanboys who follow a coach who bombed in his 2 years in the NFL with a 12-20 record??

Yeah this year has been a disappointment, but the one huge difference between this year and the last 2 years is Gibbs has the players believing and sticking together despite the tough times. We're not hearing of guys skipping out on practices, cell phones ringing in meetings, guys questioning the system, etc. Guys have bought in despite the record, that's pretty significant.

Ramsey's quote in the WP says a lot to me:

Washington has allowed eight fewer sacks than last year with one game to play, but has been weaker both running and passing the ball.

"But it's a new system and that was our second year in that system last year. I know it doesn't seem logical, but I really feel good about our future."

Redskins_P · 12-28-2004, 10:09 AM

Are we seriously going back to comparing Spurrier to Gibbs?

Daseal · 12-28-2004, 12:08 PM

The same Patrick Ramsey that will give that type of quote when he's on crutches from being pummeled for a season? He doesn't have the ball long enough to get sacked this year, he's too busy running a screen pass.

Hey Matty, maybe my coach didn't have a winning record, but yours is 5 and 10 right now wirh a .333 winning percentage in the new NFL, where mine has a .375! Both coaches don't control the defense, Gibbs was smart and went out and got a great coordinator. Without his defense we'd be fighting San Fransisco for the first pick of the draft.

As I remember, the team didn't really fall apart till the second year, so if we have another pathetic year, I wouldn't be suprised to see some fallout come from Redskins park. These are the same players that did that bullshit, and it's not past them. Spurrier treated them like men - wrongly so.

Dropped passes - concentration error. The Seahawks coaching staff worked with their players by writing numbers on the balls that the receivers had to yell out before it got there. Forcing them to concentrate. Their drops have been better since. Dumb mental mistakes accounts for less than 15% of our failures, as do poorly executed plays. I'm sorry, but many of the "poorly executed plays" are the seldom long balls we throw because we don't give our offense a chance to get into a rythm. A short pass can only be executed so well. If the receiver catches the ball, I consider it executed. I feel it's foolish to think that all you have to do is execute. You act like the defense is a robot that if everything is where it's supposed to do puts the Redskins in the endzone. Opposing defenses own Gibbs, much like they owned Spurrier, but at least we averaged 18.6 points.

MTK · 12-28-2004, 12:26 PM

.375 to .333, now there's something to hang your hat on!

Has it ever occured to you that the ultra-conservative scheme Gibbs is running is due to him shaping the scheme around the players and what he thinks they are capable of? The pass protection just hasn't been there to get the deep passing game going. Earlier in the year Brunell was taking very deep drops, but if you notice now Ramsey is taking a lot of 3 and 5 step drops to get the ball out quicker.

I guess Gibbs should just force the square peg in the circle hole and keep calling 7 step drops and deep passes and let Ramsey get killed like what happened last year. If that's what it takes to get to that magical .375 winning percentage I don't know what's holding him back.

12-27-2004, 05:04 PM	#77
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Gibbs has a one on one meeting with Ramsey every week I'm sure, so he knows exactly what's going on. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

12-27-2004, 07:26 PM	#81
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 61 Posts: 289	one of the main reasons the skins could'nt win this year was their lack of one of the game's fundamentals,catching the ball.i can't tell you, and if you have watched the games you know,how many dropped passes the skins have had this year.and there have also been a huge amount of overthrows,and the whole team just has'nt had that killer instint late in the 4th quarter when they needed it most.hey,that's my 2cents worth. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

12-27-2004, 07:46 PM	#82
kingerock Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Killeen, TX Age: 48 Posts: 360	I know alot of you see this game as being lost by Gibbs or the Defense or Sean Taylor, but to me, I see the game being won by Tuna and a WR named Patrick Crayton. "Where was Taylor, why was Springs playing the flats?" Because Keyshawn was in the slot and they were both looking to make the play on the guy who to that point had done EVERYTHING positive for the cowboys in that game. If Taylor plays more wide, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If Springs plays deeper, he misses the play on Keyshawn. If you are going to gamble, that's the gamble you take. Let the undrafted player alone and cover Keyshawn. Patrick Crayton made 2 big plays in the game and was the hero. If you remember a 4th and long before that TD was caught by the rookie too. Just like we've had guys step up and make things happen to win, Dallas had their guy do it in that game. __________________ Redskins fan lost in Texas for 20 years. Need a ride to D.C.

12-27-2004, 04:42 PM	#76
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Put yourself in Ramseys shoes? You're not thinking "Wow, he's really trying to protect me!" He's thinking "Asshole doesn't believe in me."

12-27-2004, 05:13 PM	#79
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	At least he's not worried about losing years off his life anymore.

12-27-2004, 05:47 PM	#80
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	The playcalling at the end was fine. It was a textbook clock rundown and not many coaches would have (or should have) run it differently. Some points: - I thought Antonio Brown looked great early on. Great speed and he looked dangerous every time. Of course the fumble was INEXCUSABLE, but there's no point killing this kid, I'd give him another shot or two. - The fumble really hurt us. We forced them 3 and out, but we could have had the ball and made them use all their timeouts first. Instead they got a second chance to use all their timeouts and get the ball one more time when the game shoulda been over. - Washington's offside penalty also hurt. It stopped the clock with like 45 seconds left and let the Cowboys settle down and regroup. - Taylor screwed up at the end but I have to put more blame on the play call. We got caught in no-man's-land. No pressure yet not safe enough deep. It was just like one of my online Madden games. Springs was wasted out in the flat, and the game shouldn't be put in the hands of a rookie hoping he makes the right decision in deep coverage. It's not the first time Taylor has screwed up in deep coverage. - I've said it before and I'll say it again - this is not a "great" defense. We like to jump around and talk trash when guys like Clemons are sacking poor Vinny, but we're not mature enough to close out a game when it's in the D's hands. The same thing happened in the Browns game. The Patriots would never give up a play like that. Once we took the lead the game shoulda been over. The offense didn't help much but the bottom line is we had a 4 point lead with 1 minute left and the ball at the 50. No D should blow that game, especially not a 'great' D. - That was one of the most painful losses ever.

12-27-2004, 09:51 PM	#86
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	We had a total of one catchable pass dropped last game. It ended up being an interception. That's NOT exactly an excuse. Earlier in the year the WRs had some bad drops. However most of them they had to re-adjust to Ramsey again. A different velocity on the ball and both receivers told the WP that catching a right handers ball is different than a lefthanders. Adjustments were made and they seem to be about on par with other WR combos in the league as far as dropped passes. The TEAM hasn't had a killer instinct? I know that screenpass is often the finishing blow to a defense, but how can you say the team hasn't had killer instinct. The playcalling has been so weak it's ridiculous. One first down to ice the game, we don't even attempt it. What's the difference between them having 2:30 left and 1 timeout and 2:30 left and none. Very little. Especially if we get a first down where we can just about seal the deal. skinsguy: It seems many people on this board are such fanboys they absolutely refuse to think that what Gibbs is doing isn't working. Brian Mitchell, a former player, has put the blame square on Gibbs for several games. Along with other ex-players on the comcast post-game show. I didn't see their thoughts this week. So obviously it's not just those of us on the board thinking that. It's people who played the game at a pro level, and with Joe Gibbs. Please, remove the wool from your eyes. It's not 100% his fault. I'd say 85% of it goes on the coach. Just like you said Spurriers problems were because of his coaching skills, Gibbs is failing on his side of the ball. While Spurrier didn't light up the score board on a consistant basis, he certainly got a lot less support from the defense.

12-28-2004, 09:47 AM	#87
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	85% on the coach? So what are the players, just pawns or robots that the coaches have complete control over? Gibbs has made his share of mistakes this year, but the coach can't be held responsible for dropped passes, poorly executed plays, dumb mental mistakes, etc. At some point the players have to shoulder some blame too. So I guess if Gibbs is getting 85% of the blame that only leaves 15% on the players? I think that's letting them off the hook way too easily. Maybe I'm a fanboy for believing in a coach who brought this team 3 Championships, but at least there's some merit there. What can be said of fanboys who follow a coach who bombed in his 2 years in the NFL with a 12-20 record?? Yeah this year has been a disappointment, but the one huge difference between this year and the last 2 years is Gibbs has the players believing and sticking together despite the tough times. We're not hearing of guys skipping out on practices, cell phones ringing in meetings, guys questioning the system, etc. Guys have bought in despite the record, that's pretty significant. Ramsey's quote in the WP says a lot to me: Washington has allowed eight fewer sacks than last year with one game to play, but has been weaker both running and passing the ball. "But it's a new system and that was our second year in that system last year. I know it doesn't seem logical, but I really feel good about our future."

12-28-2004, 10:09 AM	#88
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 46 Posts: 4,101	Are we seriously going back to comparing Spurrier to Gibbs?

12-28-2004, 12:08 PM	#89
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	The same Patrick Ramsey that will give that type of quote when he's on crutches from being pummeled for a season? He doesn't have the ball long enough to get sacked this year, he's too busy running a screen pass. Hey Matty, maybe my coach didn't have a winning record, but yours is 5 and 10 right now wirh a .333 winning percentage in the new NFL, where mine has a .375! Both coaches don't control the defense, Gibbs was smart and went out and got a great coordinator. Without his defense we'd be fighting San Fransisco for the first pick of the draft. As I remember, the team didn't really fall apart till the second year, so if we have another pathetic year, I wouldn't be suprised to see some fallout come from Redskins park. These are the same players that did that bullshit, and it's not past them. Spurrier treated them like men - wrongly so. Dropped passes - concentration error. The Seahawks coaching staff worked with their players by writing numbers on the balls that the receivers had to yell out before it got there. Forcing them to concentrate. Their drops have been better since. Dumb mental mistakes accounts for less than 15% of our failures, as do poorly executed plays. I'm sorry, but many of the "poorly executed plays" are the seldom long balls we throw because we don't give our offense a chance to get into a rythm. A short pass can only be executed so well. If the receiver catches the ball, I consider it executed. I feel it's foolish to think that all you have to do is execute. You act like the defense is a robot that if everything is where it's supposed to do puts the Redskins in the endzone. Opposing defenses own Gibbs, much like they owned Spurrier, but at least we averaged 18.6 points.

12-28-2004, 12:26 PM	#90
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	.375 to .333, now there's something to hang your hat on! Has it ever occured to you that the ultra-conservative scheme Gibbs is running is due to him shaping the scheme around the players and what he thinks they are capable of? The pass protection just hasn't been there to get the deep passing game going. Earlier in the year Brunell was taking very deep drops, but if you notice now Ramsey is taking a lot of 3 and 5 step drops to get the ball out quicker. I guess Gibbs should just force the square peg in the circle hole and keep calling 7 step drops and deep passes and let Ramsey get killed like what happened last year. If that's what it takes to get to that magical .375 winning percentage I don't know what's holding him back.

Joe Gibbs...YOU CAN'T BE F*@%ING CONSERVATIVE ALL THE TIME!!!!!

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