Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

apparently in early to mid may, LA state submitted a proposal to BP to build 100 sand type barriers that would protect 4000 miles of coastline.

so far BP has not responded. LA said they could have had10 miles constructed by now if BP hasnt been delaying.
...

apparently BP is delaying and the State of louisianna (sp?) is tired of sending proposals and is going to enter into emergency contracts with private companies for the clean up, dredge and sand/dirt protectors then recoup the money from BP instead of waiting and waiting and waiting for BP to either start the projects on their own or atleast start cutting checks.

seems BP is focused on clogging the hole and not putting money into the coastal problems.

also, BP attorneys have refused to turn over documents related to claims made and paid out to persons who lost their sea faring jobs b/c of the spill. some have been paid once, others nothing. these people and their families are living without a pay check for the past couple of months. LA state requested the documents to help accelerate the payments so families can eat, etc.

...

honestly, the States should do what louisianna is doing, dont wait on BP, hire who you have to then bill BP later.

BP's actions in this matter, to date, seem to me to be criminal, i.e. deserving of punishment other than merely administrative penalties (loss of licenses, revocation of permits, orders for restitution and punitive fines).

On one hand, they are focused on clogging the well. Fine, good. Not being an engineer or familiar with the pecular problems being posed by this repair, I cannot honestly judge as to whether their actions post spill have been up to the appropriate standard of care. Their actions may have been the best and most efficient responses to the problem - I just don't know. Certainly, there is plenty of incentive, both financially and from a point of public perception, to make every effort and expend all available resources to "stop the bleeding".

On the other hand, it seems to me that every day some new report of BP delaying, obfuscating, or otherwise dodging other issues that arise outside the immediate well closing activities. (injuries to fishermen due to toxins, failure to construct the sand bars, failure to respond to the proposals of local govt.'s). In addition, the few expert reports I have seen have not been particularly complimentary to BP's efforts.

All of this doesn't even consider BP's actions pre-spill, but, those actions (which seem to be blatantly negligent and perhaps grossly negligent) certainly give me a prism to look and through which to judge their post spill actions.

Given their prior complaint history and their obvious cost-cutting actions, I have little confidence BP's corporate culture. I strongly doubt that now, suddenly, BP has changed its corporate mindset from one of "cut costs, comply with the letter and not the spirit of regulations" (though, it appears they may not have even done that) to one of "F*** the bottom line, do what is right".

All this brings me back to my original point. It is time for the Feds and the States to look into and threaten some senior executives with jail time and the possibility of personal liability: "BP, Inc. goes under? Guess what: Don't care - We're selling your mansion, jets, etc. Oh and by the way, you better start finding ways to expend resources on the spill AND the peripheral issues or we will start expending some resources on finding ways to put you in jail."

If the Govt. threatens the corp., it just goes bankrupt, dissolves, or otherwise disappears and litigation pursuing its assets drags on for ever - and ultimately, the consumers and taxpayers pay for the clean up through higher prices and/or increased taxes to make up for where BP bailed.

Threaten the bastards in charge, who f***ed up by encouraging the corporate culture of minimal compliance and have now gone into CYA mode, with jail time and loss of personal wealth - well, let's see if that creates a little more urgency to have the corporation be more "helpful".

From a legal stand point, it's not that simple but, damn, this is one of those situations where you wish it could be.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

BP's actions in this matter, to date, seem to me to be criminal, i.e. deserving of punishment other than merely administrative penalties (loss of licenses, revocation of permits, orders for restitution and punitive fines).

On one hand, they are focused on clogging the well. Fine, good. Not being an engineer or familiar with the pecular problems being posed by this repair, I cannot honestly judge as to whether their actions post spill have been up to the appropriate standard of care. Their actions may have been the best and most efficient responses to the problem - I just don't know. Certainly, there is plenty of incentive, both financially and from a point of public perception, to make every effort and expend all available resources to "stop the bleeding".

On the other hand, it seems to me that every day some new report of BP delaying, obfuscating, or otherwise dodging other issues that arise outside the immediate well closing activities. (injuries to fishermen due to toxins, failure to construct the sand bars, failure to respond to the proposals of local govt.'s). In addition, the few expert reports I have seen have not been particularly complimentary to BP's efforts.

All of this doesn't even consider BP's actions pre-spill, but, those actions (which seem to be blatantly negligent and perhaps grossly negligent) certainly give me a prism to look and through which to judge their post spill actions.

Given their prior complaint history and their obvious cost-cutting actions, I have little confidence BP's corporate culture. I strongly doubt that now, suddenly, BP has changed its corporate mindset from one of "cut costs, comply with the letter and not the spirit of regulations" (though, it appears they may not have even done that) to one of "F*** the bottom line, do what is right".

All this brings me back to my original point. It is time for the Feds and the States to look into and threaten some senior executives with jail time and the possibility of personal liability: "BP, Inc. goes under? Guess what: Don't care - We're selling your mansion, jets, etc. Oh and by the way, you better start finding ways to expend resources on the spill AND the peripheral issues or we will start expending some resources on finding ways to put you in jail."

If the Govt. threatens the corp., it just goes bankrupt, dissolves, or otherwise disappears and litigation pursuing its assets drags on for ever - and ultimately, the consumers and taxpayers pay for the clean up through higher prices and/or increased taxes to make up for where BP bailed.

Threaten the bastards in charge, who f***ed up by encouraging the corporate culture of minimal compliance and have now gone into CYA mode, with jail time and loss of personal wealth - well, let's see if that creates a little more urgency to have the corporation be more "helpful".

From a legal stand point, it's not that simple but, damn, this is one of those situations where you wish it could be.

The only problem with that is corporations offer limited liability. Should we completely change Amercia because of this spill. That will tip us toward real socialism.

[JoeRedskin]

Also, as this is Friday afternoon, I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to my man JTF for his many "Wow, just Wow!" moments!

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Big Oil - Dick Cheny, Bush (all of them), Palin - Big Oil. Do not vote for Big Oil to take their government back. If you want BP to pay, do not vote Republican, I repeat do not, or they will not pay. Rand Paul of the Tea Party says holding Big Oil responsible is Un-American. By principle the Tea Party will let Big Oil off the hook. BP must pay!!!!

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Priceless!!!! Worth more than all the oil in under the Gulf, well what's left of it anyway.

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

mmm Those birds look delicious, covered in chocolate. Chocolate Pelican anyone? Oops my fault this should go in the dinner thread.

As always - thank you, thank you JTF!! You are the purest form of comic relief.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

The only problem with that is corporations offer limited liability. Should we completely change Amercia because of this spill. That will tip us toward real socialism.

And it just keeps coming!!

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

And it just keeps coming!!

Seriously though, it's a tragedy. There is nothing we can do about it. When Shell Oil built a pipeline through the water supply of a Nigerian village people laughed. When BP used to be Anglo-Iranian Oil and assasinated Iran's democratically elected president because he wanted to turn a 85-15 split to 65-45, no one cared. When they charged us 4 dollars a gallon and made 500 billion dollars in profits in one quarter we didn't care. When we invaded Iraq and they thought they were gonna build a pipeline from and independent Kurdistan to Israel we saw dollar signs. Now it's our turn and we can't do anything about it unless we fundamentally change our country. Is that we want to do now? We play ignorant, we knew BP was crooked. Stop fronting!!!!!

[CRedskinsRule]

I am curious, has anyone on here stopped using BP, or any other BP related, companies. I haven't really heard of a national or international boycott effort, though I know there are protesters.

Yes, I do feel like inserting a "BP Clean OUR Coast" truck sign joke at this juncture. Maybe Kapipal has an account for that?

[joethiesmanfan]

WE the U.S.A. played this dirty game and got burnt. Time to pray for a better outcome and repent. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS. Stop fronting.

[CRedskinsRule]

JTF,

You ought to start a thread that outlines your ideas and thoughts. The resulting conflicted thread/posts would really make for a good off-season time killer. Please be as detailed as possible, cuz your stuff amazes me at times.

[over the mountain]

im no business attorney but from an elementary stand point, LLCs and what not protect the individual assets of the corporation's CEO, president etc from lawsuits that arise from their corporate activities. (you cant take BP's ceo's mansion for an oil spill)

im sure some people alot smarter than me can come up with something. cmaybe you can you attach a judgment to the ceo's mansion if his decisions and actions rise to a level of reckless endangerment (not complying with safety regs and employees are killed).

if a metro bus driver rear ends you, you can sue WMATA and the bus driver.

if a metro bus driver punches you in the face, you can sue the bus driver but you cant sue WMATA b/c punching people in the face is not within the course and scope of employment as a bus driver.

maybe, somehow, it can be shown that BP's ceo punched someone in the face (disregarding and covering up safety hazards which results in foreseeable deaths is not within the corporate activity of drilling and refining oil?)

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am curious, has anyone on here stopped using BP, or any other BP related, companies. I haven't really heard of a national or international boycott effort, though I know there are protesters.

Yes, I do feel like inserting a "BP Clean OUR Coast" truck sign joke at this juncture. Maybe Kapipal has an account for that?

after seeing those pics of oil drenched brown pelicans i thought about giving some BP stations the business (the business being an obnoxious guy ranting and raving) but they are locally owned and operated. im sure joe schmoo gas station owner gets screwed by BP as well.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am curious, has anyone on here stopped using BP, or any other BP related, companies. I haven't really heard of a national or international boycott effort, though I know there are protesters.

Yes, I do feel like inserting a "BP Clean OUR Coast" truck sign joke at this juncture. Maybe Kapipal has an account for that?

I was wondering the same thing. NPR had a story about that recently, that BP gas stations have suffered and could suffer more.

Local BP Gas Station Owners Fear Boycott

[joethiesmanfan]

But seriously, ultimately JTF is gonna wind up paying his part for this whole mess. BP's ceo will slither his royal behind back to Britain and be knighted, if he has not already been knighted. God bless America.

[SmootSmack]

From a public relations standpoint, if you're another big oil company (say Sunoco or Exxon), how do you approach this situation?

Do you take this opportunity to tout your commitment to safety, do you offer to help BP solve the problem, or do you just keep quiet?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I was wondering the same thing. NPR had a story about that recently, that BP gas stations have suffered and could suffer more.

Local BP Gas Station Owners Fear Boycott

I feel bad for the station owners, but I won't stop at a BP anymore. It may be a very small hit to BP, but if enough people join in, the individual station owners will change to another provider when their contracts are up, or will file lawsuits against BP to allow them to change suppliers.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

From a public relations standpoint, if you're another big oil company (say Sunoco or Exxon), how do you approach this situation?

Do you take this opportunity to tout your commitment to safety, do you offer to help BP solve the problem, or do you just keep quiet?

If I was them I would be quiet. BP is one of the most poweerful entities on the planet. They have killed before.