My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

From an agreed upon system of government/culture that places value upon them. It is a creation of men and their philosophy and yes, it is possible they could be denied, look around the globe for countless examples. IF these rights were guaranteed by our supposed creator, you'd think he/she/it would do a better job of follow up. Just sayin'. Oh, I know, mysterious ways and all that. Right.

Preliminarily, we have a very different understanding of God. I have said this before in a more detailed post, but, put simply, my God doesn’t keep human pets.

We are free to disbelieve in God and, as such, we are free, through “agreed upon system[s] of government[s]/culture[s]”, to choose systems that deprive fellow humans of their basic humanity. It’s not the Creator’s job to ensure that we love and respect each other – it’s ours (Have you actually read the 10 Commandments?). Our success or failure in that respect, however, does not belie the Creator's underlying endowment. Rather, if the Creator forced humans to behave in certain ways, then we are not truly free, the Judeo-Christian God is a lie, and we are just very intelligent hamsters in a cage.

[Similarly, earlier you said you demand proof of God’s existence. Actually, what you are demanding is forensic evidence of God’s existence – God’s blood samples and fingerprints. Such a demand is antithetical to the God in which I believe. If you have undeniable, forensic evidence that a supreme, all powerful being exists, then to disobey such a being is foolhardy. Again, my God says I am free to disbelieve him/her/it. Forensic evidence destroys the need for faith but equally destroys the ability to freely choose. W/out freedom of choice, you cannot choose to love. Rather, the “proof” of my God’s existence comes in the form of testimony - testimony that you categorically disbelieve and find not credible. That’s your choice. I am not going to go into a long discourse on my philosophical/spiritual journey but, suffice it to say, it was long, contemplative and rocky and the outcome not certain until my mid -30’s. Through my own experience, I found some testimonial proof concerning the existence of God credible and some not so much. I weighed them and, after much thought and analysis, made my own determination. You are free to make the same choices or not.]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Specifically re: your point about inalienable rights, you might be interested to know that Jefferson originally wrote "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Doesn't sound quite as religious as "...all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable Rights..," does it? The Continental Congress changed the wording to emphasize "Creator." In my view, the difference being that in the original wording, it seems to point to the inherent rights of man as a natural being in and of himself, whereas the final wording indicates the rights as a "gift" from a benevolent god. What that tells me is that our government has been forced to pander to the religious since the very beginning.

Also, the word "created" doesn't necessarily mean the role of creator is played by a god. Could very well be a process, like, I don't know, evolution? Take it for what it's worth.

Again, I believe evolution took place and I believe it to be entirely consistent with the existence of God. I do believe that, at some point, something was created from nothing. Even if you say, created is part of the evolutionary process, fine by me – the rights did not come from man and cannot legitimately be taken away by other men.

As for being “forced to pander to the religious”, I don’t recall an armed militia holding a gun to the Continental Congress. They made a choice based on their experience. I suggest you see it as pandering b/c of your hostile attitude toward religion rather than a conclusion with factual basis.

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Why is it disrespectful for the religious to be told their beliefs are baseless when those of us who prefer to live in the real world must constantly be told that we "need saving" or "face eternal damnation..?" Why are religious views worthy of more respect? I'd love to hear an answer without "god" in the verbiage.

Ahh. So some individuals/groups made remarks that disparaged your belief system and you feel the appropriate response is to treat anyone who holds similar beliefs to those individuals/groups with equal and opposite disrespect. Excellent moral/ethical conclusion – do unto others as they do unto me. Nice. Sign me up for that system.

Why are religious views worthy of more respect? They aren't. I would suggest, however, that the spiritual choices and belief systems of others are worthy of the same respect you demand for your own belief system. Your disrespect towards millions of people you don’t know strikes me as arrogant and condescending.

To be clear – I live in the “real world” and am not passing judgment on your spiritual choices. Who knows, maybe there is no God. I’ll take that chance and you take yours. In the meantime, I will live in the moment, cherish the gift of life and do unto others as I would have them do unto me - Even if they are disrespectful, arrogant individuals who mock my beliefs without any understanding of how I arrived at them.