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Locker Room Main Forum Commanders Football & NFL discussion |
View Poll Results: Who do you blame for the CBA mess? | |||
Owners |
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24 | 26.67% |
Players |
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24 | 26.67% |
Both |
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42 | 46.67% |
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll |
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#361 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 37
Posts: 15,994
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Here's my take: the players made significant gains for themselves (but not for retired players) in 2006 though the process of collectively bargaining. That negotiation was far more time sensitive than this current one. They couldn't let the 2006 league year begin without a deal because there was no language in that deal to protect against teams leveraging the last capped year to their benefit, and muddying the waters for any potential future labor deal. The salary cap, very seriously, may never have returned and the quality of football declined.
It should not be perceived as a liability of the owners that the players were seemingly unwilling to collectively bargain away some of the gains they had made in 2006 without seeing the financials. Should they have just given back $1 Billion in future revenues? Probably not, but the players association came from a totally false premise that there would be anything close to a "give back" in these negotiations. There was no agreement. That's why there is currently a lockout. Right now, the players have nothing. There is no agreement, and until a court rules that a lockout violates anti-trust law, no contracts for the upcoming season are valid. Ultimately, the players are worth a certain amount. They are probably worth less than the owners "best" offer, but more than what they would have gotten if the union had "given back" $1 Billion of the revenue pie. Whatever the number was, it certainly could have been achieved through collective bargaining, but both sides (particularly the players) would have needed to check false entitlement at the door. It's hard to sympathize with the owners because they certainly are underestimating their own ability to create new revenue streams. They certainly didn't NEED to opt out of the CBA to remain profitable. They may have needed to alter their business models a bit to cut costs and increase revenues (and I thought the 18 game season was a fairly ingenuous was to accomplish this). The players are fully entitled to choose the litigation route via decertification, but fair value (plus a little extra) could have been achieved through collective bargaining. The only logical reason for going this route has little to do with fair value and mutually ensured prosperity, but with "going to war" and "winning" the labor dispute. That's an excellent example of the greed that they NFLPA leadership is accusing the owners of. The NFLPA probably does have better laywers and likely can "win" in court, and the fans ultimately aren't going to give a damn when football is here next season, and as an observer it's hard for me not to root for the players to get whatever they can in the negotiations. But the buck will eventually just be passed along to the fans anyway.
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according to a source with knowledge of the situation. |
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#362 |
Pro Bowl
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 5,741
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
I wonder if things like this will accelerate getting this thing fixed.
Jets put pay cuts, furloughs in place. As expected, the Jets introduced 25 percent pay cuts on Saturday for every employee under their football operations umbrella.That includes head coach Rex Ryan and GM Mike Tannenbaum. Meanwhile, every worker on the business side of things will be required to take unpaid furloughs until a new CBA is agreed to. However, if an agreement is reached before the start of the preseason, all employees will be reimbursed for their lost pay. Mar 12, 4:53 PM Mark Sanchez - New York Jets - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com
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REDSKINS FAN SINCE 1968 |
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#363 | ||||||||||||||
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
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Goodell's career in the NFL began in 1982 as an administrative intern in the league office in New York under then-Commissioner Pete Rozelle – a position secured through an extensive letter-writing campaign to the league office and each of its then 28 teams. In 1983, he joined the New York Jets as an intern, but returned to the league office in 1984 as an assistant in the public relations department.[12] In 1987, Goodell was appointed assistant to the president of the American Football Conference (Lamar Hunt), and under the tutelage of Commissioner Paul Tagliabue filled a variety of football and business operations roles, culminating with his appointment as the NFL's Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer in December 2001. As the NFL's COO, Goodell took responsibility for the league's football operations and officiating, as well as supervised league business functions. He headed NFL Ventures, which oversees the league's business units, including media properties, marketing and sales, stadium development and strategic planning. Goodell was heavily involved in the negotiation of the league's current collective bargaining agreement. He had worked extensively with Tagliabue since the latter became commissioner in 1989.[3] He has played an extensive role in league expansion, realignment, and stadium development, including the launch of the NFL Network and securing new television agreements as well as the latest collective bargaining agreement with the National Football League Players Association. Here's Smith's NFL (also labor negotiation background): ...... So in the sense of experience in the situation at hand who's the asshat? Quote:
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"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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#364 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 58
Posts: 21,597
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Nevermind...
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#365 | ||||||||
Gamebreaker
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Quote:
The Phone Slamming King: How Snyder Communications made Dan Snyder rich, 1997-1999 ... rich enough to buy the Washington Redskins These are owners that have made money crookedly and you expect them now to be honest? Gullible much? Quote:
Smith Responds To Offers - ESPN Video - ESPN Listen to D. Smith responds to Parish video. He says the NFL wants them to write them a check for 500 million the first year and escalates up to 1 billion in the final year. So I have no idea about that 185 million you are referring to. Sounds like smoke being blown up your people's asses. Quote:
Do what? Last time I checked, the total revenue in the NFL is 9 billion. The owners get 1 billion off the top for expenses. They then share the revenue 50/50. Where are you getting your numbers from? Quote:
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1) They have no revenue coming in (TV contracts, Tickets, parking, merchandise, vendors, ad sponsors).....all gone. 2) They'd still have to pay maintenance/expenses/taxes/etc on their current infrastructure. 3) There would be no union to represent players so no future pro-player would work for them besides scabs. Also, once the NFL closed shop, new investors would arise and form a new league to bring that talent over. That would become the new NFL and the league the future college kids go to. Your theory of the NFL would survive is laughable at best. Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/sp.../06worker.html John Mackey: From The NFL To Dementia - CBS Evening News - CBS News http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/sp...0dementia.html Marshall's torments not likely to fade - USATODAY.com Nah, they don't share any risks at all. Nope. Quote:
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Again with the wrong numbers. Can you document anything you are saying? I'm providing sources to all my stuff, and you haven't backed one statement up with any facts. Hey, I guess that's how negotiating with you and the owners work. Just take your word on it. Also, there really are no financial risks for NFL owners these days. If this were the 80's then you might have a point, but the NFL is a revenue monster. Even a monkey running a team can profit. |
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#366 | |
Gamebreaker
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Instead Of Player Pay Cuts, NFL Needs More Revenue Sharing - SportsMoney - news on the business of sports - Forbes
I suggest everybody read this article from Forbes. You know, the people would know and understand the finances of business. Quote:
Game. Set. Match. |
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#367 | |
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
GTripp,
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I just have a hard time feeling sorry when I make roughly $50,000 a year with overtime, have to pay for the majority of my medical and dental, a % of my earnings goes to retirement and another goes to social security and yet my job is no different then the medical professionals who have to worry about picking up a disease from their patients, firemen who face getting killed fighting fires everyday, or policemen who face getting killed everyday. I understand fans being pissed because they think the owners are being greedy but no one goes into business to lose money. No one goes into business to give away half their earnings. Businessman start business in the hopes of making the most money they can. Plus how good your business goes determines how succesful you are. So most owners should appear greedy because they are trying to make the most. If anything I feel the players are the ones fans should be pointing their fingers at and calling greedy because it just seems they are trying to take and take from what the owners are earnging. It seems like they want the owners to fork over the money for everything that the common citizen has to pay for on their own. It seems like their taking their starting salaries of $400,000 + for granted when if they don't like what they are doing to what they are making then come join the rest of us who have to earn a fraction of what they make with worse conditions then what they have .... everyday, not just on Sundays. Instead of risking their lives for 16 days of the year how about they risk their lives for 365 days minus weekends or time off and holidays. Not to mention having to worry about a possibility of a furlough. or they can find another job that has a union if they like. |
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#368 |
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Better yet the players can decide to not play for the NFL anymore and maybe start their own league with the intention of giving 60% + of their earnings to the players they hire and paying for all medical expenses for the rest of the players lives as well as a retirement fund and they could cut the games played to maybe half of what the NFL has say 8 games a year then playoff time cause cutting the games played obviously saves the players from getting more injuries.
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#369 |
Warpath Hall of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UNITED STATES
Age: 38
Posts: 36,175
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
This thread is getting heated
__________________
“Mediocre people don’t like high achievers, and high achievers don’t like mediocre people.” ― Nick Saban |
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#370 |
Living Legend
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22,369
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
We need a mediator to settle things down here. LOL.
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R.I.P. #21 |
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#371 | ||||||
Playmaker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 4,347
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Quote:
The NFL's proposal included: • audited league-wide profitability data with dollar figures from 2005 to 2009, based on individual club statements; • the number of teams that have seen a shift in profitability in that span; • an independent auditor to examine the data. The information the NFLPA is asking for isn't even shared between the individual NFL teams. What the NFLPA is asking for is complete BS and has never been provided in any previous CBA negotiations. It's just a strawman by the NFLPA that has many (including you) buying it. Demaurice Smith knew where he was taking these negotiations, he just had to put up the front of negotiating in "good faith" so fans that are blindly loyal to the players would be sympathetic (read; buy his load of crap). How the owners made their money is irrelevant. Should we talk about how Haynesworth made his money and how he performed in "good faith". Quote:
Lockout, court cases put popular NFL on hold - NFL - Yahoo! Sports From the link: By Friday afternoon, when mediator George Cohen declared “no useful purpose would be served” by asking the parties to keep negotiating, it appeared the NFL and union were about $185 million apart on how much owners should get up front each season for certain operating expenses before splitting the rest of the revenues with players. That’s a far cry from the $1 billion that separated the sides for months. Quote:
NFL owners on verge of lockout with players in labor feud - The Denver Post Quote:
National Football League Players Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Actually people did watch the replacement games, far better than the NFLPA "All Star" games. - The TV contracts are already negotiated, if the NFL plays games it doesn't matter who is on the field. - There will be revenue coming in, people will still go to games. Number may be down, but revenue will still come in....and with greatly reduced player costs the owners will likely make a better percentage of profit. - With no union, anyone could play that wants to, scab, former NFL player, or previous NFLPA member who wants to cross the picket line. Wait until the players miss a game check or two and you can reply to this old thread letting me know how right I was. Trust me the NFL isn't going anywhere. Quote:
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Finances Show Profit, But Troubling Trends Remain Quote:
__________________
"I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996. |
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#372 |
Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 7,766
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Slingin Sammy,
I'm with you on the fact that just about everyone watched the NFL even when the first strike occurred. Don't get me wrong there were people who complained about the play on the field but for me as long as the talent level was all the same it was just as good. You guys watch college games, why? because the talent level is roughly the same and the money is not getting in the way of the play. I don't think I've ever heard fans here complaining about a college game claiming their scabs.... because thats where our scabs are going to come from. Atleast the majority will. People act like the teams doors are going to be open for players that have no talent at all ie; the couch potato. |
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#373 |
Warpath Hall of Fame
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UNITED STATES
Age: 38
Posts: 36,175
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
Damn Sammy you brought the rain
__________________
“Mediocre people don’t like high achievers, and high achievers don’t like mediocre people.” ― Nick Saban |
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#374 |
You did WHAT?!?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Kitchen With Dyna.
Age: 36
Posts: 14,182
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
That's why I'm here.
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https://open.spotify.com/artist/1NG9zNxqMP8cYNP72QqUQT Shameless self-promotion. It is what it is. |
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#375 |
Hug Anne Spyder
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,562
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Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
NC_Skins, this is just one fan's view, but I'm a fan of the Redskins first and foremost. Don't get me wrong I like the players in the NFL, but would I care if the Skins had to bring in scabs while the NFLPA sat out? Nope. I don't watch the NFL or the Skins because of the players, I watch it because of the game. Only a small percentage of fans watch the game for the players, the majority of NFL fans are loyal to a team above everything else.
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Hail to the Football Team |
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