Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love

[Longtimefan]

Firstdown I would like to clarify to some degree exactly what I meant when I said we cannot be sure of what or where Ramsey will be in the next two years. I am not throughly convinced of the fact that even if Ramsey is playing good it's not a matter of whether Gibbs will get rid of him as opposed as to whether he will want to stay here. I need to be convinced that the drafting of Campbell was not for any other reason than to play, and to play for the Redskins. I can't get out of my mind how Ramsey reacted last year when Brunell was brought in to compete with him for the starting QB job. Based on that reaction alone I'm left to wonder just what his intentions "might" be in the not so distant future. It could be that he will once again not welcome the competition (which will always be) and express the desire to move on. This may not be the case, but we must understand that somewhere in the future there has to be a place for Campbell.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Not to be contrary simply to be contrary, but.. The logic of 'he just thought highly enough of him' argument doesn't make sense in the NFL today.. If you are confident that the QB you have is your QB of the present and near future, why give up 3 picks to draft another one? With the cap and roster limits (which were not a consideration the first time around) you don't go and strengthen a position where you already have your guy.

The Chargers correleation was if they were convinced that Brees was the guy (like if Gibbs were convinced that Ramsey was the guy) they wouldn't have drafted Rivers (and the Redskins wouldn't have drafted Campbell). Yes their record was great last year, but now they have a large amount of their cap allocated to one position. I'm sure they are happy with their record but if they knew the light would come on for Brees they would have gone another direction with that pick rather than essentially waste it. Rivers barely played last year and will likely barely play this year so they have a player they are paying #5 overall QB money to who is stuck behind a 28 yr old Pro Bowler.. If the light comes on for Ramsey, they have spent 3 picks on a player who won't see the field until mid next season at the earliest. The bad thing about the pick is it only works out if Ramsey falters. You can't cut/trade a 27 yr old performing QB for a rookie just because you drafted his replacement.

On the Chargers, theirs was a very unique situation because they held the #1 overall pick. True, at that point Brees hadn't shown that he was ready to be considered the franchise QB, and hence the Chargers considered a QB with their first overall pick. They didn't have much faith in Brees, which is exactly why they were ready to hand Eli Manning a first overall pick's contract. That of course didn't work out because Eli didn't want to be a Charger, but if the Chargers had their druthers, Manning would be in San Diego, and the Chargers would have laid down a huge signing bonus.

We all love to point to the draft picks that Gibbs gave up to get Campbell, but we all seem to forget that since Campbell was taken late in the first round, he'll be making chump change. When Ramsey was taken with pick 32, that netted him a contract of less than $1.2 million per year. Figure some inflation on Campbell, and we're talking less than $2 million a year on our salary cap for the next 5 years or so. So yes, Gibbs gave up a lot in the way of draft picks, but I still say the investment was much less than what the Chargers wanted to invest in Manning, or what they ended up investing in Rivers for that matter.

The Chargers situation is much different from ours. We gave up a shot at some players next year by trading the 1st and 4th round picks, which is a lot, that's for sure. But it's not as big a deal as the Chargers' situation. They have two QBs who are going to be making a ton of money. Once we get Brunell off the books, we're going to have two who aren't making much at all. (Unless Ramsey explodes, he'll get a modest contract two years from now or he'll leave). That leaves us with more cap room for other things, which helps us deal with the loss of the draft picks.

I don't think you can point to the drafting of a 2nd QB and automatically say it is a misallocation of resources unless you consider the finances. When the salary is that low, there is no pressure to bring Campbell along that quickly. You can let Ramsey keep his starting job and let Campbell learn, because your QBs aren't monopolizing your cap space.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

On the Chargers, theirs was a very unique situation because they held the #1 overall pick. True, at that point Brees hadn't shown that he was ready to be considered the franchise QB, and hence the Chargers considered a QB with their first overall pick. They didn't have much faith in Brees, which is exactly why they were ready to hand Eli Manning a first overall pick's contract. That of course didn't work out because Eli didn't want to be a Charger, but if the Chargers had their druthers, Manning would be in San Diego, and the Chargers would have laid down a huge signing bonus.

We all love to point to the draft picks that Gibbs gave up to get Campbell, but we all seem to forget that since Campbell was taken late in the first round, he'll be making chump change. When Ramsey was taken with pick 32, that netted him a contract of less than $1.2 million per year. Figure some inflation on Campbell, and we're talking less than $2 million a year on our salary cap for the next 5 years or so. So yes, Gibbs gave up a lot in the way of draft picks, but I still say the investment was much less than what the Chargers wanted to invest in Manning, or what they ended up investing in Rivers for that matter.

The Chargers situation is much different from ours. We gave up a shot at some players next year by trading the 1st and 4th round picks, which is a lot, that's for sure. But it's not as big a deal as the Chargers' situation. They have two QBs who are going to be making a ton of money. Once we get Brunell off the books, we're going to have two who aren't making much at all. (Unless Ramsey explodes, he'll get a modest contract two years from now or he'll leave). That leaves us with more cap room for other things, which helps us deal with the loss of the draft picks.

I don't think you can point to the drafting of a 2nd QB and automatically say it is a misallocation of resources unless you consider the finances. When the salary is that low, there is no pressure to bring Campbell along that quickly. You can let Ramsey keep his starting job and let Campbell learn, because your QBs aren't monopolizing your cap space.

I agree on most of your post, my point wasn't a dollar for dollar comparison, it was just comparing situations of having a young QB and then having to draft another young QB and the potential costs (in dollars for the Chargers and picks for the Redskins) if the original QB performs..

[sportscurmudgeon]

Take the names out of this and tell me how outrageous this thinking is:


Last year's defensive unit - ranked in the top 3 in the league - lost their starting MLB and one of their starting CBs to free agency. Their starting SS has been absent for all team workouts since last season ended and is facing trial on felony charges in September 2005 - pending motions to put off the trial date. The projected replacement for the lost MLB is someone who was injured for all of last season; the projected replacement for the lost CB is a player who was injured for much of last season or possibly a high round draftee who is currently injured. Based on those happenings, the team has not had the kind of offseason that it might have wished to have.

Last year's offensive unit was less than productive and had a quarterback controversy for about half the season. After announcing that the QB who finished out last year was the starter this year, the team went out and spent a lot of captial just before the draft to pick another QB. Might this be the start of another QB controversy? It could happen - - and QB controversies don't usually make offensive units a whole lot better.

[SmootSmack]

How outrageous is this thinking?

Going into last season the defensive unit lost its starting All-Pro middle linebacker and replaced him with a undrafted free agent who had never started a mike lb before, let alone played the position. Just one month into the season the unit lost its All-Pro outside linebacker and replaced him with another undrafted free agent playing out of his natural position. The unit also lost not only its starting strong safety but also the primary backup, forcing it to use the 3rd stringer at that position. Additionally, the unit was without its starting DE for much of the season...

And still the unit finished ranked in the top 3 in the league

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

On the Chargers, theirs was a very unique situation because they held the #1 overall pick. True, at that point Brees hadn't shown that he was ready to be considered the franchise QB, and hence the Chargers considered a QB with their first overall pick. They didn't have much faith in Brees, which is exactly why they were ready to hand Eli Manning a first overall pick's contract. That of course didn't work out because Eli didn't want to be a Charger, but if the Chargers had their druthers, Manning would be in San Diego, and the Chargers would have laid down a huge signing bonus.

We all love to point to the draft picks that Gibbs gave up to get Campbell, but we all seem to forget that since Campbell was taken late in the first round, he'll be making chump change. When Ramsey was taken with pick 32, that netted him a contract of less than $1.2 million per year. Figure some inflation on Campbell, and we're talking less than $2 million a year on our salary cap for the next 5 years or so. So yes, Gibbs gave up a lot in the way of draft picks, but I still say the investment was much less than what the Chargers wanted to invest in Manning, or what they ended up investing in Rivers for that matter.

The Chargers situation is much different from ours. We gave up a shot at some players next year by trading the 1st and 4th round picks, which is a lot, that's for sure. But it's not as big a deal as the Chargers' situation. They have two QBs who are going to be making a ton of money. Once we get Brunell off the books, we're going to have two who aren't making much at all. (Unless Ramsey explodes, he'll get a modest contract two years from now or he'll leave). That leaves us with more cap room for other things, which helps us deal with the loss of the draft picks.

I don't think you can point to the drafting of a 2nd QB and automatically say it is a misallocation of resources unless you consider the finances. When the salary is that low, there is no pressure to bring Campbell along that quickly. You can let Ramsey keep his starting job and let Campbell learn, because your QBs aren't monopolizing your cap space.

nice post

[SkinsRock]

Ok, I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already said this, but why is it that people tend to forget that Gibbs teams before had periods where they struggled? But to Joe's credit, they always pulled out of it. People write and talk about "HOF Coach Joe Gibbs" as if we went to the SB every year he was here before....with us fans, that's understandable, but not the so-called experts that are supposed to be objective. It just astonishes me that these guys don't recognize the fact that yes, the game had passed Gibbs, so it took him a year to catch up....really not even a year if you look at how we played the last part of the season. He was always the master of studying a situation, identifying what to do to adjust, and then adjusting....whatever it takes! I have no doubt that he will do it again.

[gortiz]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

How outrageous is this thinking?

Going into last season the defensive unit lost its starting All-Pro middle linebacker and replaced him with a undrafted free agent who had never started a mike lb before, let alone played the position. Just one month into the season the unit lost its All-Pro outside linebacker and replaced him with another undrafted free agent playing out of his natural position. The unit also lost not only its starting strong safety but also the primary backup, forcing it to use the 3rd stringer at that position. Additionally, the unit was without its starting DE for much of the season...

And still the unit finished ranked in the top 3 in the league

It really pisses me off man, with all the freaking fan fare that G Williams has gotten, I got to still believe that he is underated, GET OFF SMOOT AND PIERCE, they were good players on a VERY VERY good Defensive unit. They were just pieces of a bigger puzzle!!!!

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

How outrageous is this thinking?

Going into last season the defensive unit lost its starting All-Pro middle linebacker and replaced him with a undrafted free agent who had never started a mike lb before, let alone played the position. Just one month into the season the unit lost its All-Pro outside linebacker and replaced him with another undrafted free agent playing out of his natural position. The unit also lost not only its starting strong safety but also the primary backup, forcing it to use the 3rd stringer at that position. Additionally, the unit was without its starting DE for much of the season...

And still the unit finished ranked in the top 3 in the league

nice post.

and may i add, the skins had also lost their all-pro cb (bailey) during the offseason and replaced him with an aging cb coming off of an injury (springs)

[monk81]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Here's someone on our side

Thanks for the smack of optimism..........I needed that

Whats really funny is that Parcells ended up with the same record as Gibbs, yet no one is bashing and trashing Parcells......just Gibbs...........

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I love that article. It's the most "upbeat" non-homer article I've seen.