Redskins at Bears Post Game Thoughts

[30gut]

Originally Posted by The Goat

^^^ Video highlights of the Bears game picking up at the point RGIII misses Fred Davis totally, incontrovertibly, unmistakably open in the flat and instead overthrows Moss down the field.

Your vid has been removed.
But, look I agree the decision to throw to Moss wasn't the best, because obviously he was double covered.
Did Davis look wide open while the ball was in flight on the way to Moss? Yes.
But, from the TV feed angle I don't believe there is any way to see what Griffin was seeing at the point he made the decision to throw the ball.
And imo the only way to know for sure if Davis was wide open is to see an angle wide enough to see what Griffin was seeing at the point Griffin is making the decision to throw the ball.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Your vid has been removed.
But, look I agree the decision to throw to Moss wasn't the best, because obviously he was double covered.
Did Davis look wide open while the ball was in flight on the way to Moss? Yes.
But, from the TV feed angle I don't believe there is any way to see what Griffin was seeing at the point he made the decision to throw the ball.
And imo the only way to know for sure if Davis was wide open is to see an angle wide enough to see what Griffin was seeing at the point Griffin is making the decision to throw the ball.

NFL Videos: Redskins vs. Bears highlights

The action picks up at about 2:25 and you see Fred Davis open the entire time, and all three highlight videos I've seen show this same view as well as the original broadcast.

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

NFL Videos: Redskins vs. Bears highlights

The action picks up at about 2:25 and you see Fred Davis open the entire time, and all three highlight videos I've seen show this same view as well as the original broadcast.

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

Eventually we'll get to the point where we can cross reference the All 22 to the eyes of the quarterback. I would love to see that. It would tell us a lot more than just the overhead camera.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Eventually we'll get to the point where we can cross reference the All 22 to the eyes of the quarterback. I would love to see that. It would tell us a lot more than just the overhead camera.

I know that some schools Notre Dame for one, has camera on mounted on the QBs helmets.
But, I can't ever see that being releases into the hands of rabid fans like ourselves.

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Also if you think that our TE is the best downfield weapon on the roster, I'm guessing you, Davis and Williams have a similar hobby.

There's nothing wrong with having that hobby depending on what you do for a living.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is one of the reasons the league was hesitant about releasing the 'All 22' film to fans, because of assumptions we make based on what we see.

We don't know where Davis was in the receiver progressions, we don't know if he was a decoy to draw coverage, we don't know if the coverage dictated the throw to Moss, we don't know what adjustments were made, hell we don't know if Davis was open because he ran the wrong route. Yes, he was open but that doesn't make it the right play.

All very true.

I think Davis is kinda open but certainly not 'wide open'.
He's short of the 1st and would need RAC or break a tackle to convert the 1st down.
But, it is probably a safer play then throwing to a double covered Moss.

Here's how I see it:
3rd and 4
There are 2 linebackers dropping back with full view of Davis and Griffin, there is one LB #52? who is definetely keying on Davis and would have a great jump on ball thrown to Davis and since the other linebacker is also watching Griffin they would both break towards Davis upon Griffin's release of the pass.
Imo that does not constitute being 'wide open', and throwing this pass to Davis is akin to throwing a checkdown as Davis is running about 2 yards short and parrallel to the 1st down marker.

That's what I saw *shrugs*

-btw
Are you the same paintrain from extremeskins?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

All very true.

I think Davis is kinda open but certainly not 'wide open'.
He's short of the 1st and would need RAC or break a tackle to convert the 1st down.
But, it is probably a safer play then throwing to a double covered Moss.

Here's how I see it:
3rd and 4
There are 2 linebackers dropping back with full view of Davis and Griffin, there is one LB #52? who is definetely keying on Davis and would have a great jump on ball thrown to Davis and since the other linebacker is also watching Griffin they would both break towards Davis upon Griffin's release of the pass.
Imo that does not constitute being 'wide open', and throwing this pass to Davis is akin to throwing a checkdown as Davis is running about 2 yards short and parrallel to the 1st down marker.

That's what I saw *shrugs*

-btw
Are you the same paintrain from extremeskins?

Yes, but it's been years since I posted over there. Has someone assumed my virtual identity?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Yes, but it's been years since I posted over there. Has someone assumed my virtual identity?

Nah, talking about this play reminds me of the thread awhile back where a group of us did breakdown/discussion of the Skins vs Cowboys game, I thought you were one of them.
One of the best threads ever on extremeskins.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by The Goat

You (as usual) just continue to argue for the sake of arguing...

Wow, um my bad dude.
Here I thought we're 2 fans that are football nerds talking about a specific play.
But, if you feel that I'm arguing just to argue and I do this continually then I won't waste your time with my response.
There are plenty of Skip Bayless posts that you can respond to.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Wow, um my bad dude.
Here I thought we're 2 fans that are football nerds talking about a specific play.
But, if you feel that I'm arguing just to argue and I do this continually then I won't waste your time with my response.
There are plenty of Skip Bayless posts that you can respond to.

We're still nerds talking about football

I just can't stand it when something is obvious, black and white, and available from myriad sources to verify no less, but you want to agree to disagree lol. Davis was open from the snap.

But whoever said the play may have been designed to hit Moss using Davis as a decoy is probably right. I just meant that come regular season you want to see your QB adjust during the play and hit the open receiver for the 1st down...and I think RGIII will. That was my whole friggin point from the beginning.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

We're still nerds talking about football

I just can't stand it when something is obvious, black and white, and available from myriad sources to verify no less, but you want to agree to disagree lol. Davis was open from the snap.

But whoever said the play may have been designed to hit Moss using Davis as a decoy is probably right. I just meant that come regular season you want to see your QB adjust during the play and hit the open receiver for the 1st down...and I think RGIII will. That was my whole friggin point from the beginning.

Case in point from John Keim (best on the beat IMO) on where a 'good' play by Cousins was the wrong play.. Just because we think we see what we see, we may not be seeing the entire picture..

Redskins QB Cousins learns from risky throw | WashingtonExaminer.com

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Case in point from John Keim (best on the beat IMO) on where a 'good' play by Cousins was the wrong play.. Just because we think we see what we see, we may not be seeing the entire picture..

Redskins QB Cousins learns from risky throw | WashingtonExaminer.com

Good read for sure. I appreciate your posts and insight btw...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Good read for sure. I appreciate your posts and insight btw...

Thanks bro, likewise.. Ready for some real football!!

[Paintrain]

** Sorry-double post **

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by The Goat

We're still nerds talking about football

I just can't stand it when something is obvious, black and white, and available from myriad sources to verify no less, but you want to agree to disagree lol. Davis was open from the snap.

But whoever said the play may have been designed to hit Moss using Davis as a decoy is probably right. I just meant that come regular season you want to see your QB adjust during the play and hit the open receiver for the 1st down...and I think RGIII will. That was my whole friggin point from the beginning.

Edit it