Jordan Black suspended for PEDs

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The only place I've heard Mike for COY is on this board, where else has he been named?

Also, haven't heard RG discussed as MVP outside this board. P Manning, Brady and AP I've heard about. Manning gets it IMO.

Zorn was a joke, but this is Shanahan's team and roster through and through. Interestingly enough, the only remnants or similarities between the two regimes have been in play-calling eg swinging gate vs RG catching the pass against Ryan Clark. I'm not really sure why anyone brings Zorn up otherwise, what does he have to do with anything at this point? You can say the team was depleted of talent, but that's been debunked by Tripp and frankly, common sense. The defense Mike inherited was better than anything he's been able to put together since.

NFL.com lists pts/game ranking for us:

2012-23rd
2011-21st
2010-21st
2009-18th
2008-6th

The 18th ranking in 2009 is probably misleading because much of the team mailed it in halfway through the season. But it's clear anyway. In five seasons we went from 6th to 23rd, and Shanahan has everything to do with that. He also is responsible for an improved offense. So where does that leave us? Again, what's the Shanaplan? How does the defense improve so we can be a contender, given the lack of resources we have going forward? How does it "work" when father and son run the organization from top to bottom?

I don't blame anybody for avoiding specifics here btw. Just don't pretend they're unimportant.

Now we can go back to discussing Jordan Black

Goat, I remember when Shanny was fired in Denver. He was quoted as saying something to the affect of "Now that I have a chmapioship conteding offense I need to get a defense and start contending for a championship again".

That would leave me to believe that his next steps in completing his 5 year plan will be to stack the defense the next two years while tweaking the offense to create a team capable of accomplishing that goal.

Yes the team had a defense that was ranked back then, but it was over paid veterans who were nearing the end of thier careers. The defense was going to need an overhaul soon, and Shanny wanted the 3-4. He took something that wasn't broke at the time but was heading there and started to reconstruct it. It obviously needs more work, but once again teams aren't built in an off season

[rbanerjee23]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

That would leave me to believe that his next steps in completing his 5 year plan will be to stack the defense the next two years while tweaking the offense to create a team capable of accomplishing that goal.

I really hope so -- I think he gets some leeway due to the unreal number of injuries, suspensions etc. which have decimated the defense. But leaders are judged on what is, not what could have been and the defense has done a very average job (much better in recent weeks) this season in my opinion. I really hope the defense gets better, and think it will, next season.

Stats don't tell the whole story but they are the most objective measures we have: 29th in YPG, 30th in PYPG, 23rd in Points per game, 16th in sacks -- not a championship caliber defense. That being said, 6th best in Takeaways and 6th best in RuYPG which is very good. So, incomplete, lots of room for improvement.

Anyways -- back to Jordan Black...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

Goat, I remember when Shanny was fired in Denver. He was quoted as saying something to the affect of "Now that I have a chmapioship conteding offense I need to get a defense and start contending for a championship again".

That would leave me to believe that his next steps in completing his 5 year plan will be to stack the defense the next two years while tweaking the offense to create a team capable of accomplishing that goal.

Yes the team had a defense that was ranked back then, but it was over paid veterans who were nearing the end of thier careers. The defense was going to need an overhaul soon, and Shanny wanted the 3-4. He took something that wasn't broke at the time but was heading there and started to reconstruct it. It obviously needs more work, but once again teams aren't built in an off season

Good post. Shanny had some solid defenses between Elway's retirement and his own ousting, but most Denver fans (all the ones I know) don't believe he could put it all together to be a contender after Elway. And most fans believe that had everything to do with Mike taking an ever larger role in personnel decisions, to the point where he was basically wearing both hats.

I think those criticisms are accurate and justified but there's always more to the story. Shanahan/Elway never faced the kind of high powered offenses and defenses the following decade produced in NE, Indy, and (begrudgingly) Pittsburgh. I always thought Shanahan's teams were on the sloppy side, just as we see today with more penalties than any other team etc etc. But for that brief time in Denver he had a team that was unbelievably talented, and again it was a rather low point elsewhere in the NFL.

Today, Mike is still wearing both hats. Some supporters say we have little talent three years in (which always makes me wonder why the eff they're supporters). I think we have some good talent. I thought we had enough talent to finish 8-8 minimum this season, and that was before we saw RG play.