Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Angry

OK let's start with a definition of Tangible evidencs. "Evidence that can be supported by numbers" otherwise known as "Tangible Data" (my paraphrase). You started off well by using the teams 9-7 record the year before he took over and then provided his 9-7 record the next year. You then did state that he made the playoffs. Here is all of the tangible evidence that you left out.

Mangini - 9-7 - 3rd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 9-7 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 11-5 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 8-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 6-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed playoffs (out of contention week 16)

Ryan is 34-28 (.548) in the regular season and 4-2 in the post season (.667)

He has made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons


Let's put that into a comparison

Coughlin w Giants 82-60 (.577) in the regular season and 8-3 in the post season (.727)

He has made the playoffs 5 out of 9 seasons.

The numbers are comparable. Rex may not have Coughlin's 2 Superbowl's but he has very similar numbers.

The intangibles as you stated would be the bad personnel decisions and the lack of maturity in the Lockerroom etc.

You state that he has shown lack of leadership in the locker room. That's debatable. Some coaches want the locker room to run wild. It doesn't mean that he is not in charge, he want's them a little out of control. Examples include Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami and the Oakland Raiders with Al Davis.

You said that he doesn't evaluate talent well at all. Well, I will not agree or disagree with this one. I will say that the last time I checked however, each NFL team has it's own scouts, talent evaluators, and GM. It's their job to evaluate talent. The HC just chips in, but it is not ultimately his job.

You say that they are leaderless, I would say that offensively you would be correct; Mark Sanchez is not a good leader. On defense they have plently of leadership and they play pretty good. That's not a lack of leadership from coaching it's a lack of leadership from the player. You cannot make someone be a leader. Trust me.

You state that he inherited a good team. Brett Favre couldn't make that offense good. He led the Vikings to the playoffs the very next season.

I think that if you give Rex a decent and mature QB, then the Jets can be a force in the NFL.

1) You can't just state Coughlin's two superbowls and act like they do not account for anything. Comparing a two-time superbowl winning coach to a coach who hasn't won anything is not a good comparison.

2) A coach who you can compare to Rex Ryan...
Norv Turner... 53-39 (.576) but has shown a decline from when he took over at San Diego, he has been to the playoffs 4-8 times with San Diego, or 50% of the time just like... Rex Ryan. Yet most people belive Norv Turner cannot be a head coach. He has similar numbers to Rex Ryan, so which one is he, is he Norv Turner or is he a coach who was a proven winner at Jacksonville and a two time superbowl winning coach with players that he drafted. Difference between Coughlin and Ryan however, one coach inherited a team that was 9-7 the year before the other inherited a team that was 4-12 and had the number one draft pick. Also one thing they always say Turner lacked... leadership.

3) Leadership is a coach's responsibility. NO coach wants the locker room to run wild, Jimmy Johnson had control of his locker room at Dallas and drafted leaders like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin. Leadership is absolutely a coaches responsibility. If you want a team to listen to you and respect you, you have to be a leader of men, look what happened at Dallas, a player passed away and Garret showed leadership in the way he handled that situation, and now their team is in playoff contention yet again.

4) I do not think it is coincidence that once Rex Ryan took over they started making questionable off season decisions. Tannedbaum has been there since 2006 (same year Mangini got hired) and had good drafts with Mangini, then all of a sudden Ryan gets hired and he starts to look terrible. Its not just coincidence in my opinion. I don't like Tannedbaum either by the way.

5) Brett Favre was successful with that team, their offense was good, if you recall Brett Favre injured his arm the final 5 games of that season when they started 8-3 and then went 1-4 which knocked them out of the playoff race.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by donofriose

1) You can't just state Coughlin's two superbowls and act like they do not account for anything. Comparing a two-time superbowl winning coach to a coach who hasn't won anything is not a good comparison.

2) A coach who you can compare to Rex Ryan...
Norv Turner... 53-39 (.576) but has shown a decline from when he took over at San Diego, he has been to the playoffs 4-8 times with San Diego, or 50% of the time just like... Rex Ryan. Yet most people belive Norv Turner cannot be a head coach. He has similar numbers to Rex Ryan, so which one is he, is he Norv Turner or is he a coach who was a proven winner at Jacksonville and a two time superbowl winning coach with players that he drafted. Difference between Coughlin and Ryan however, one coach inherited a team that was 9-7 the year before the other inherited a team that was 4-12 and had the number one draft pick. Also one thing they always say Turner lacked... leadership.

3) Leadership is a coach's responsibility. NO coach wants the locker room to run wild, Jimmy Johnson had control of his locker room at Dallas and drafted leaders like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin. Leadership is absolutely a coaches responsibility. If you want a team to listen to you and respect you, you have to be a leader of men, look what happened at Dallas, a player passed away and Garret showed leadership in the way he handled that situation, and now their team is in playoff contention yet again.

4) I do not think it is coincidence that once Rex Ryan took over they started making questionable off season decisions. Tannedbaum has been there since 2006 (same year Mangini got hired) and had good drafts with Mangini, then all of a sudden Ryan gets hired and he starts to look terrible. Its not just coincidence in my opinion. I don't like Tannedbaum either by the way.

5) Brett Favre was successful with that team, their offense was good, if you recall Brett Favre injured his arm the final 5 games of that season when they started 8-3 and then went 1-4 which knocked them out of the playoff race.

Lat one

1) He didn't win those Superbowls until after his 5th season (They wanted to fire him too)

2) Norv Turner inherited a stacked and consistent Playoff team led by Phillip Rivers. Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB.

3) I think you missed the argument there. They respected the coach but he allowed them to act out. Watch ESPN's 30 for 30 "The U". Many coaches had an "Us against the world" attitude and it works.

4) The GM is responsible for his own actions.

5) Brett Favre and that team went 9-7 finished 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Angry

Lat one

1) He didn't win those Superbowls until after his 5th season (They wanted to fire him too)

2) Norv Turner inherited a stacked and consistent Playoff team led by Phillip Rivers. Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB.

3) I think you missed the argument there. They respected the coach but he allowed them to act out. Watch ESPN's 30 for 30 "The U". Many coaches had an "Us against the world" attitude and it works.

4) The GM is responsible for his own actions.

5) Brett Favre and that team went 9-7 finished 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.

1) They won a superbowl in his 4th year, not his 5th and they didn't want him fired until last year.

2) "Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB." And this is his fourth season and what are the Jets... A team that missed the playoffs that still has no QB. He hasn't done anything to improve the team.

3) Johnson still had control of the team. Ryan does not, that locker room was split last year because the players had lost respect for Ryan, the problem was the Ryan made it obvious that Sanchez was above the team, he hitched his wagon to Sanchez and wanted Sanchez to be a leader he was not and never will be. He made Sanchez above the team and because of this he lost the locker room which is an obvious weakness in leadership.

4) The GM is responsible, but so is the coach. I do not like either and do feel the Jets should start over in the front office and their coaching staff, but look at the players tannenbaum brought in while Mangini was the coach... Fergurson, Mangold, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Revis, D. Harris, and Keller... who has Ryan brought in with the same gm? All their impact players were brought in during the Mangini era even though it was the same GM.

5) I said they missed the playoffs but the reason they missed the playoffs is because Brett Favre got injured and they lost 4 out of their final five games after he got injured (8-3 with him healthy). I believe it was later revealed that he had a torn bicep and the league fined the Jets for it if I remember correctly.

The point is Rex Ryan deserves blame too. He is not the worst coach in the league but if he gets fired he deserves to be fired. He decided to ride with Sanchez and now it might cost him his job. And if it does he deserves to be fired for being dumb enough to ride with a QB like Sanchez.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by donofriose

1) They won a superbowl in his 4th year, not his 5th and they didn't want him fired until last year.

2) "Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB." And this is his fourth season and what are the Jets... A team that missed the playoffs that still has no QB. He hasn't done anything to improve the team.

3) Johnson still had control of the team. Ryan does not, that locker room was split last year because the players had lost respect for Ryan, the problem was the Ryan made it obvious that Sanchez was above the team, he hitched his wagon to Sanchez and wanted Sanchez to be a leader he was not and never will be. He made Sanchez above the team and because of this he lost the locker room which is an obvious weakness in leadership.

4) The GM is responsible, but so is the coach. I do not like either and do feel the Jets should start over in the front office and their coaching staff, but look at the players tannenbaum brought in while Mangini was the coach... Fergurson, Mangold, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Revis, D. Harris, and Keller... who has Ryan brought in with the same gm? All their impact players were brought in during the Mangini era even though it was the same GM.

5) I said they missed the playoffs but the reason they missed the playoffs is because Brett Favre got injured and they lost 4 out of their final five games after he got injured (8-3 with him healthy). I believe it was later revealed that he had a torn bicep and the league fined the Jets for it if I remember correctly.

The point is Rex Ryan deserves blame too. He is not the worst coach in the league but if he gets fired he deserves to be fired. He decided to ride with Sanchez and now it might cost him his job. And if it does he deserves to be fired for being dumb enough to ride with a QB like Sanchez.

1) Thank you for correcting my stat about winning after his fifth year. You are correct he won in his 4th. The fans did want Coughlin fired after going 8-8 in his third season and before they exploded on their SB run in the 4th. Remember, their game against us was the turning point that season.

2) Your right, but who's responsible for drafting Sanchez? Scouts, critics, and Pete Carol didn't believe that Sanchez was ready for the NFL. The Jets took a shot at him anyway. Is that on the coach or the GM?

Arguing points 3-5 can go back and forth all day. There is too much speculation involved. I will not change your mind and you definately will not change mine.

I say that Rex has earned at least one more year with a new QB. You believe that they should blow it up now. Ultimately it's not our call. One thing is for sure, Cousins will not be the QB if Rex does get another shot. Good Day!