Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

1. Go into the season with Demetric Evans as your starting DE? He's been in the league for 6 years, if he was a starting caliber player-he'd be starting!

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

My thoughts exactly. Why the hell is Evans even on the damn team in the first place? Just to be a back-up? I think we would've been just fine with Evans starting and then have James and Wilson back him up along with the 7th rounder Jackson in the mix.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

Wow, do you try to be negative all the time or does it just come naturally?

How are we 'forfeiting the entire season' by getting a better, younger player than the one he replaced? Has ANYONE said that Evans would be a suitable replacement?

How can anyone project that a 2nd and 6th round picks will cost us 2-3 wins over a 3 year span? How many games did Taylor Jacobs win us? He was a 2nd round pick. How about Nehemiah Broughton? He was a 6th round pick.

The gaps in logic are mind blowing!!

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

Picking up Jason Taylor says nothing about Demetric Evans ability to play. When you lose two players for the season at the same position, you have to act quickly and fill those roster spots. It just so happen that a former All-Pro is available. It makes sense to me to upgrade at that position. I would say that Jason Taylor is an upgrade over a healthy Phillips McDaniel. Demetric Evans still has a big role on this team and will have plenty of opportunities to contribute. The combination of Taylor and Carter will allow the Redskins to get a push from both ends in their base defense, something they didn't get in the past few seasons. They always had to go to a pass rushing specialist in obvious passing situations.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.

If we have the # 20 pick in the draft. A 2nd and 6th translates into 400 points or giving up the # 50 overall pick rather than # 52. I would've liked to get away with a 3rd & 6th, but the Fins leverage went way up yesterday.

2. The other problem with giving up a 1st day pick is this....that was the pick we needed for a long term DE...yes, you can say we can do this with our 1st...but cmon....we need a CB and those go high...we also need DT and Oline pretty bad...not to mention LB's.

There are these things called free agents also. And how are we going to fill needs at DE, CB, DT & OL with our 1st round pick? There is no team in the NFL that doesn't have depth or talent issues at one position or another. This is the nature of the cap & FA. Some folks have mentioned the Giants great depth at DL, but their secondary scares no one and what if a starting CB goes down. What if Moss goes down for the Patriots, their WRs look pretty average. NEs secondary is also average or worse without Samuel.

3. I am now concerned about running D...Daniels was no sack master...but he sure did well against the run....perhaps evans can help out but do you really want AC or JT on the bench?....what we need now is a STUD DT and a solid OLB to cover for Griffen and Rocky....to me...the needs just went up there.

If we stay with an aggressive Cover 1 as our base D with the SS close to the LOS, this scheme should be fine against the run and will cover Taylor. We have needs to replace Griffen and with Rocky's knees, but the injury to Daniels did nothing to increase or decrease those needs.

5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.

We did? When?

Campbell - dislocated kneecap
Carlos Rogers - torn ACL & MCL
Thomas - torn tricep
Jansen - broken ankle
Washington - dislocated elbow
Daniels - foot
Moss - groin, heel
Thrash - ankle

The training staff couldn't do anything to prevent the above injuries. Moss has had injury issues with his hammy in the past. There were some guys with hammy issues, but none missed any significant time or more than one game. I'm sure we had no more of a problem with this than any other team. Since the training staff is not restricted by $$$ or cap, you can be sure the Skins have one of the best staffs in the NFL. Not a fair attack on the training staff IMO.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

If we stay with an aggressive Cover 1 as our base D with the SS close to the LOS, this scheme should be fine against the run and will cover Taylor. We have needs to replace Griffen and with Rocky's knees, but the injury to Daniels did nothing to increase or decrease those needs.

We did? When?

Campbell - dislocated kneecap
Carlos Rogers - torn ACL & MCL
Thomas - torn tricep
Jansen - broken ankle
Washington - dislocated elbow
Daniels - foot
Moss - groin, heel
Thrash - ankle

The training staff couldn't do anything to prevent the above injuries. Moss has had injury issues with his hammy in the past. There were some guys with hammy issues, but none missed any significant time or more than one game. I'm sure we had no more of a problem with this than any other team. Since the training staff is not restricted by $$$ or cap, you can be sure the Skins have one of the best staffs in the NFL. Not a fair attack on the training staff IMO.

Good points about the defense. I'm sure Greg Blache will find a scheme to stop the run, much in the way GW had to find a scheme to generate a pass rushin years past. That Cover 1 should do the trick.

Very good point about the training staff. Snyder made the hamstring issues a point of emphasis and hired someone to take care of that. You did a great job of showing the various bad breaks we had last year, but ligaments and tendons can't be "trained" to prevent injury, beyond the stretching regimens they already do. As a victim of two achilles tears (basketball) I can tell you that there is no rhyme nor reason to these things, much like you can't prevent ACL tears. You can limit players exposure to injury, but at the end of the day these guys are doing things the human body just wasn't really designed to do, so these types of injuries will occur.

[BigSKINBauer]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.

...

5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.

6 I love the fact that JT did that dancing thing....why? because he is flexible and has zero body fat...that means he's fit and unlikely to suffer bogus "freak" non contact injuries.

Even though the cons include a weaker run d and a loss of a very valuable 2nd rounder, I hesitantly approve due to the fact that there was NO ALTERNATIVE.
But I am still pissed at the training staff for sucking so bad.

On point 1. The truth it is a 6th rounder is worth nothing on those charts. The 34th pick plus the first 6th round pick is "worth" less than the 32nd pick. Next the value of a 6th rounder in 2 years is not worth a sixth rounder in the current year according to charts. So that sixth is more like a 7th and the best 7th pick and the 33rd pick are less than the 32nd pick according to the charts. So really that 6th rounder is worth next to nothing.

Point 5. I agree. It has to do with conditioning. I would blame the players over the staff tho. It probably has to do more with their offseason programs than anything.

Point 6. yeah, I always though it was dumb of him to do that stupid dancing show. I mean he was saying on the show that he was dancing 8 9 hours a day. He is bound to have lost weight and lost muscle. A smart player would save that for retirement.
----


Honestly, we were forced into making this move. We needed to. Our D-line has been shit. AC helped us move from 19 sacks in 06 to like 33 in 07. This will help us move even farther. JT will finish out his contract and Vinny said that he expects him to play longer than that with the skins. This is a great move and again i have to say our staff did a great job. How do you lose a player before i eat lunch and have the best DE of the past 8 years signed before i eat dinner? On top of that we didn't give more than other teams were offering. On top of that our organization left enough cap to make a move like this. Good job on not blowing the cap before we actually needed it.

CAN"T WAIT TO SEE JASON IN CAMP!

[Monkeydad]

I love the move. It was necessary with the loss of Daniels.

I believe he'll play out his contract and give us two years of double-digit sacks.

The last 3 years, he's had 12, 13.5 and 11 sacks. He has missed ONE game since the start of the 1998 season. He's reliable and his sack totals have gone up with experience, not down with age. People have criticized his techniques in this thread, but the numbers don't lie, he's a sack-monster...and was on a horrible team. With Andre Carter on the other end...his presence is going to help the team even if he doesn't get the sack himself. O-Lines can't double-team Taylor AND Carter.

Too bad they can't both wear #99...it would just add to the chaos for the opposing offenses.

He'll love the winning and won't want to quit. Of course he said he only wanted to play one more year, but that was when Parcells was running the show and the 'Phins were coming off a ONE-WIN season. Who wouldn't want out of that situation?

The move to a winning team and great organization will revitalize Jason Taylor and he'll want to stay as long as he can. That's my opinion, at least.

[dcsportsfan1]

2 season ending injuries in the first day? Its called a warmup people... you know they are in shape so that can't be it. We got lucky by finding someone of this caliber so quickly. Jesus it took what like 2 hours?!? Just a few back and forths with Parcells and poof... JT. As always comcast sportsnet has a bunch of great videos following training camp and the trade.

[MTK]

So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.

No, unless he's capable of playing.

Obviously if he's capable of playing at this level, he can start in a pinch. If he can't start in a pinch, what capable role could he fill? That's basically just saying that he's only effective when he spends more time off the field than on it. That's not showing any confidence in the guys' abilities.

I think Evans has proven more than enough in limited time to warrant a longer look, but looks like we're going to have none of that here.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So unless a backup is capable of starting he's of no use to a team?

There are guys on every team that aren't starting material but they fill critical roles. Evans is still going to fill an important role.

I think Evans is very capable of starting. You don't think so?

[hail_2_da_skins]

This was a good deal. The Skins desperately needed to bolster their defense line and Jason Taylor was the best player available. At the beginning of training camp, there are very few quality players available. Even thought Taylor is undersized, he has proven to be a great athlete and a very good all around defensive end. I know a lot of people are concerned he weakens the defense against the run and I don't think that will be the case. Taylor will hold his own.

[MTK]

There's a big difference between starting in pinch which Evans is certainly capable of and becoming a full-time starter. I like Evans, but if he had to start 16 games I'd be concerned.

[SKINSnCANES]

Jason Taylor will make everyone around him better. We had no one worth double teaming on our line. Carter stepped up at the end of the year and may have started to get double teamed. If anything now jason taylor will continue to be double teamed and open up opportunities for the other 3 linemen to get to the QB.

Ive always thought Andre Carter was in the mold of Jason Taylor, but hadnt learned all the technique yet. Well now he will learn first hand. No one heard of Adowale Ogunleye (sp) and Taylor turned him into a sack machine by takign the double teams to his side.

Im sooo happy we finally have a pass rush with our front four. We need that pressure even more so being thin at corner.