A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Tryon and Brooks were certainly pretty bad picks.

Thomas has struggled to learn the offense, but Malcolm Kelly has had to deal with his knee injury. I do however put that one on the front office. We knew his knee was a red flag before we ever drafted him.

Chad Reinhart has been a disappointment. He hasn't even suited up for a game yet, and it's not like there's a huge learning curve on the O-line when transitioning from rookie to pro. Rookie O-lineman contribute all the time in the NFL - undrafted Stephon Heyer last year is a case in point. You can't label Reinhart a bust after one year, but the fact that we've had a line riddled with injuries and he still hasn't played a single snap... not good at all.

You know what really frustrates me about this FO is Tyron is still on our roster. We can not even put him on the field he is so bad. Why are we wasting our time with him.
I would rather take a chance and steal another talented player off another teams developmental list. This is the time to do that. Maybe a young lineman?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

You know what really frustrates me about this FO is Tyron is still on our roster. We can not even put him on the field he is so bad. Why are we wasting our time with him.
I would rather take a chance and steal another talented player off another teams developmental list. This is the time to do that. Maybe a young lineman?

Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.

I agree. When certain players are making the roster because of where they are drafted instead of the level of their play on the field, we are going to fail as a team Our FO is slow to cut their loses with certain players is they do not want to admit they were wrong for drafting them. Durant Brooks sucked in preseason, but yet he made the team.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.

With regards to Tryon I think there is a lot of ego involved with this one. They spent a moderately valuable draft pick on the guy and I think that means they are going to give him more of a window of opportunity than a guy like Torrence, who is probably a better player. I think that is sort of the way things go in the NFL...

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I really don't mean to sound like a butthole....but are you not saying the same things we all have been saying all along? At the begginning many said it was not going to be a "rebuilding" year but a transitional year cause the team had to learn a new offense. Many said the team would be 8-8 or 9-7. I myself always predict high at my wonderful 10-6. Although a lot of fans wanted lineman there were others such as myself who said we needed taller WR's. We got them. Many said don't expect to much from them cause it usually takes 2-3 yrs for a rookie WR to learn how to play in the pros. Which is why I wanted CJ. but I'm happy to have two young WR's for our future.

Many said the lines were to old and the average age was 29. We need youth. younger faster healthier linemen on both sides of the ball.

Many said including myself that it would take atleast 2-3 yrs to learn a new offense. Many of us have been slamming Zorn for his lack of putting the new guys on the field but every once in a while we hear how one of the rookies was supposed to zig and they zagged or basically went the wrong way or to deep or not deep enough. which basically proves Zorn was right when saying the rookies don't have all the plays down. Now the question is who's fault is it. or is there any possible way instead of giving them the whole play book and saying learn it the team could have given them 10 or 20 plays a piece and told them to learn them inside and out. Then inserted them periodically to use those plays.

...again not to be a butthole but all this was said and expected, but for what ever reason our high expectations got the better of us along with the teams success. but there are things I'm not seeing that worry me. ...Like Zorn not adjusting during games or during the season when teams figured out what he was doing and tried to counter it ,successfully I might add. Will Zorn give us more of the same...here's my game plan win lose or draw I'm sticking with it or will he learn to adjust during games?

I don't think there is anything wrong with sharing your perspective. I certainly don't take offense at anyone saying "Hey - isn't this what we've all been saying?"

However, my general impression from reading articles in the mainstream media as well as grooming through threads in this forum was a great deal of negativity and scrutiny of many of the Redskins moves since Gibbs left.

I was just trying to say, "Let's all take a collective breath and put things in perspective," but trying to define why we should put things in perspective and keep some optimism about this team moving into next season.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by backrow

I agree with 98% of the rest of your thread, but the FA acquitions seem a bit much. I suspect we will be players, but that quantity seems a bit high.

I think the B&G will be more fiscally responsible than what you have posted.

You might be right. I think a lot will depend on the market. If Springs and Washington do come off the books however that does open up about 15m in space. I think they will acquire at least one player on the defensive front seven.

A linebacker who can blitz and play on the line in nickel situations like Terrell Suggs or Dansby might be sufficient to address the one seeming deficiency on the defensive side of the ball.

[Skins4L]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

You might be right. I think a lot will depend on the market. If Springs and Washington do come off the books however that does open up about 15m in space. I think they will acquire at least one player on the defensive front seven.

A linebacker who can blitz and play on the line in nickel situations like Terrell Suggs or Dansby might be sufficient to address the one seeming deficiency on the defensive side of the ball.

I agree. Either would be a nice pickup and be effective. Im thinking...D Line though...over LBs at this point. But if we nabbed either of the players you named id be nearly as happy.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Or DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery.....

Two words. ...Stan Hixon.

[SBXVII]

^ that was me trying to be funny. Our WR have produced little in 5yrs. Moss is our only go to guy and seems to catch a pounding every year. No one else produces and to think ARE is a viable #2 is comical. Our problem is part players part coaching. Look at Coles. He caught a ton with the Jets comes to us and is put on the back burner for our run first offense. He leaves and is a scoring machine. Look at Lloyd. Did Ok in San Fran but became a problem. Came to us and hardly saw the field. Why? He goes to Chicago and does better then here. Why? Stan "the man" Hixon needs to go back to the college level where he was a master and the Skins need to find a viable "NFL" WR's coach.

I truely believe next year we will be better. Hopefully Zorn evaluates the players as well as himself and sees what and who is worth keeping for his offense to work. Hopefully Zorn finds a way to "adjust" during games and seasons and we will be set.

Is that positive enough?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

^ that was me trying to be funny. Our WR have produced little in 5yrs. Moss is our only go to guy and seems to catch a pounding every year. No one else produces and to think ARE is a viable #2 is comical. Our problem is part players part coaching. Look at Coles. He caught a ton with the Jets comes to us and is put on the back burner for our run first offense. He leaves and is a scoring machine. Look at Lloyd. Did Ok in San Fran but became a problem. Came to us and hardly saw the field. Why? He goes to Chicago and does better then here. Why? Stan "the man" Hixon needs to go back to the college level where he was a master and the Skins need to find a viable "NFL" WR's coach.

I truely believe next year we will be better. Hopefully Zorn evaluates the players as well as himself and sees what and who is worth keeping for his offense to work. Hopefully Zorn finds a way to "adjust" during games and seasons and we will be set.

Is that positive enough?

YES!!! Couldn't agree more w/ you bro. When half your WR corp can't run proper routes and the other half (the vets) can't get open consistently, when every WR experiences the dropsies, then yeah the WR coach needs to go. Hopefully Zorn has someone great in mind cause I truly believe aside from an infusion of young talent along the o-line it's our WR performance holding this offense back.

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.

This is true.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I think we will address our lines primarily in FA and use the draft to address our LB situation.

in a 4-3 defense, you can get by with just about anybody at LB if you have a dominant defensive line and secondary. Here is how i see our FA and draft playing out:

TRADE carlos Rogers for a 2nd round pick.
CUT Washington, Smoot, Taylor, Griff (yes, i think we keep Springs).
I also dont think we will count on McIntosh being a starter next year. This leaves us with the following STARTING NEEDS on defense in 2009:

1DT, 1DE, 2LB, #2/3CB

I also think we will see replacements for starters with players not currently on our roster at RT and C (Rinehart will replace Kendal at LG).

So that means our team will need 7 new starters (with players not currently on our roster) next year. here is how i think we will fill them:

Free Agency:
DT - Haynesworth will be the only "huge" FA signing. If we can't land him, I think we go with someone like Shaun Cody.
DE - Chris Canty is a good fit here. He won't break the bank and will be an upgrade over Taylor.
CB - Chris Gamble
OT - Mark Tauscher - Replaces Jansen immediately

Draft:
1st Round - Best OLB available. He will be a starter on opening day.
2nd Round - Best C Available. This guy will be our starter. I know we dont have a 2nd round pick, but i'm assuming we can get a 2nd rounder for Carlos Rogers from someone.
3rd Round - Best LB available. He will compete with McIntosh for the starting spot.

[GMScud]

BigHair- Gamble signed a phat contract with Carolina a few weeks ago to my dismay. I liked the idea of him as well.

And Tauscher is the same age/mileage as Jansen. Not sure how much of an upgrade he'd be.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think we will address our lines primarily in FA and use the draft to address our LB situation.

in a 4-3 defense, you can get by with just about anybody at LB if you have a dominant defensive line and secondary. Here is how i see our FA and draft playing out:

TRADE carlos Rogers for a 2nd round pick.
CUT Washington, Smoot, Taylor, Griff (yes, i think we keep Springs).
I also dont think we will count on McIntosh being a starter next year. This leaves us with the following STARTING NEEDS on defense in 2009:

One thing I would say here is that I really believe that cutting all the veterans you mention would have a negative net impact on the locker room. I am a firm believer that the Redskins do have a solid locker room and veteran leadership. I think there are some clear cases of performance/compensation issues with the veterans you mention however I'd be wary of doing a complete hack job.

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

The reason none of these receivers were picked was due their size. Most fans and Skins personnel thought Moss, ARE and Lloyd were too small and wanted more physical receivers. Everyone was bitching about the size of our receivers so that's what we got. The moral of the story is that you can't go by the physical size of someone, it should be measured by the person heart/desire. Does Wes Welker ring a bell? How about Steve Smith, our own Santana Moss?

guys we've been talking for YEARS about how long it takes WRs to progress...how many times did we hear that THIS was the year Taylor Jacobs was going to dominate? Mike Westbrook? Desmond Howard? Albert Connell? McCants? Mix? Gardner (was good)? Of course its too early to label the WR class of 2008 a bust (just as it was with the other guys), but at some point in the near future, the walks like a duck, talks like a duck test must be implemented...