I guess no one likes VC.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Also, you know, I liked his thoughts with all of the draft picks last year...

In my mind, it was clear that Cerrato thought that an O-Line of Samuels (Pro-Bowler), Kendall (solid vet starter), Rabach (decent), Thomas (one time Pro-Bowler), & Jansen/Heyer was good for the upcoming year and saw what we all saw last year... that our WR crew was our biggest weakness on offense on a team that went 9-7 with just one solid WR, thinking we were just a couple of pieces away from really going deep.

He selected THREE receivers because of the whole "WRs can be a bust" thing, that is true. If we take 3, one has to hit, right? He picked 2 safties with the same logic in mind, and the one picked LOWER (Horton) actually turned out better than the the other (K Moore)

The only problem is, he picked one receiver that had only ONE season as a starting WR in college, Devin Thomas, and one WR with knees worse than my grandfather... and one receiver who is a TE, which we happen to be set at. Let me say also that Fred Davis WILL be a great TE in the league. If he were on a team that needed a TE, he would have produced this year IMO.

The issues with Thomas & Kelly were obvious to the whole league. Remember, they were supposed to be drafted in the top 25 picks. BUT, Cerrato knew we needed TALL receivers for Zorn's WCO and saw two "1st round projected WRs" and jumped... and I can't blame him for it. Going into the year we had a Pro-Bowl RB & FB, a solid line, and a young developing QB, and a OC that needed "BIG" targets, so again, Cerrato's draft = not bad logic.

Also... he DID draft a lineman last year (Rinehart) for the aging GUARDS we have, because we have one Pro-Bowl T (Samuels), one T that still had some legs left (Jansen) and a backup that showed flashes as a rookie (Heyer).

BUT... imagine if Zorn wasn't bringing in the WCO... would we been more open to a DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal? (they aren't the "TALL" receivers the WCO "needs")... anyway, that's not Cerrato, the WCO dictated Thomas and Kelly.

Regardless of all of this... lol... we are still SUPER SCREWED at WR right now, well at least Cerrato is. You all KNOW that if we were to sign a FA WR or god forbid draft a WR, then people would be lambasting the fact that the man is an idiot... so, we are going to have the same well below average WRs as this year and HOPE that one gets smart quick (Thomas), one gets Earnest Ainsley to HHHEAAAAL (!) those knees (Kelly), and that Zorn figures out how to use TWO TE's in the WCO (Davis).

I know that watching Vinny on TV is very painful... the guy is just WEIRD looking and talks like a recovering cocaine addict from the 80's... but... his only draft he had control over made sense to me.

[44ever]

Maybe just maybe. It's not JC, JT, Portis, O line, D line, DB's, or Vinny! ect....
Now this may sound crazy. But maybe we just need to be patient with Vinny and see what he and Zorn can do.

If we fire Vinny, replace Zorn start Colt and all the other senarios discussed in various threads then we have seen the best of the Skins. IMO

I think considering Snyder kept his personnel shows that he is finally starting to understand you can't buy a Super Bowl. It takes time to implement a system and build upon it.

Vinny sees the same thing we do and more.

Fire Away!

[IowaSkinsFan]

It must be great to be Vinny......Seriously, the only guy in the entire NFL that DOESN'T have to worry about Job Security. If the team doesn't win, it must be because of the coaches, not the talent evaluator.

There are two big problems staring this team in the face right now, 1. the lines need rebuilt and even if Cerrato acknowledges that, 2. he is still doing the evaluating which means we could end up with the Thomas, Davis and Kelly's for OL and DL of this years draft as well.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Maybe just maybe. It's not JC, JT, Portis, O line, D line, DB's, or Vinny! ect....
Now this may sound crazy. But maybe we just need to be patient with Vinny and see what he and Zorn can do.
If we fire Vinny, replace Zorn start Colt and all the other senarios discussed in various threads then we have seen the best of the Skins. IMO

I think considering Snyder kept his personnel shows that he is finally starting to understand you can't buy a Super Bowl. It takes time to implement a system and build upon it.

Vinny sees the same thing we do and more.

Fire Away!

I would agree with that for the later rounds, but in a salary cap era of the NFL, when you have 3 second round picks, they must contribute to the team immediately. It's not necessary, it's mandatory.

Additionally, Vinny has been evaluating talent for this team since 2002. Would you say our drafts have been stellar to this point?

Even the FA classes with ample NFL footage have been suspect, i.e. Brandon Lloyd, Adam Archuleta, the over the hill gang of 2000 (Vinny was there for that as well).

Good talent evaluators don't spend time on the market as Vinny did after Marty fired him in 2001. If Vinny was gold or knew what he was doing, he would not have been working for ESPN while he waited for Snyder to fire Marty.

[53Fan]

I think after this years draft and another year to see how the 2008 rookies work out, we'll have a better idea of whether Vinny should continue in his present role or not. Ideally we give him 2 more years. The upcoming draft should give us some idea, but it's too soon to judge this rookie class and we haven't even seen how he'll address this years draft.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I think after this years draft and another year to see how the 2008 rookies work out, we'll have a better idea of whether Vinny should continue in his present role or not. Ideally we give him 2 more years. The upcoming draft should give us some idea, but it's too soon to judge this rookie class and we haven't even seen how he'll address this years draft.

It's the only logical choice at this point. IMO

I also think Vinny was smart to keep his mouth shut yesterday

[redskinjim]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

At one time in the past I definitely think Snyder was pulling the strings more often than not, and under Gibbs I think Vinny again took a backseat. Starting with last year's off-season Vinny is clearly running the show now, and I think it's only fair to judge him based on that going forward. I agree one year is not a proper evaluation of a draft class. Most people know this too but are too hell bent on taking swipes at Vinny at any cost.

we could have taken a lot of different wide outs .I liked the picks at first but think now we should have taken only one wide out. it looked good at the time we will see next year if they can play

[SBXVII]

Oh crap you guys were seriously talking about his skills...I thought you wanted to know what I thought of him and I was going to add .....he looks like a Pug to me with his eye's going every which way. LOL.

Well....I feel Vinnie probably deserves more time. Although, he was apart of some of the picks prior to Gibbs. In Gibbs first tenure rumor was he was asking for certain free agents or draft picks and the GM and owner at the time would decide if the player was needed. Usually the player was not needed and they didn't get him. So if put in Gibbs hands I suspect we drafted or aquired peopled we didn't need. But I doubt that. I'm betting Gibbs and company gave a list of needs for position and Vinnie picked up who he thought would work.

[skinsfan69]

I wonder why nobody likes the guy? He must be a total 100% dick behind closed doors. You have to wonder if Samuels has nothing good to say about you then you must be a dick cause Samuels is a good guy. But you have to wonder why no one wanted him when Marty fired him. Even Casserly got a GM job.

[WaldSkins]

What would anyone say if this year with our first pick we took either Crabtree(Texas Tech) or Hicks(North Carolina).????

[SBXVII]

^ I would say I don't keep up with college ball and don't know who the heck they are. But if they can help the team so be it....however, everyone the team picks usually does not amount to much their first yr. I know, Taylor, Landry, Horton, but keep in mind it's a lot easier to be put in a position were all you have to do is sit in the back field and wait for the home run try...and occassionaly rush the QB...and not get there in time.

Everyone else other then Heyer has been relegated to practice squad or let go. Then got picked up by other teams. Funny, Mason was with us 2 yrs and looked to be an excellent replacement for Portis one day and we lose him. Then people are talking about picking up another RB in the later rounds of the draft for the same reason. Go figure. Someone else to have to take 2 more yrs to learn his job before he hits the field.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

^ I would say I don't keep up with college ball and don't know who the heck they are. But if they can help the team so be it....however, everyone the team picks usually does not amount to much their first yr. I know, Taylor, Landry, Horton, but keep in mind it's a lot easier to be put in a position were all you have to do is sit in the back field and wait for the home run try...and occassionaly rush the QB...and not get there in time.

Everyone else other then Heyer has been relegated to practice squad or let go. Then got picked up by other teams. Funny, Mason was with us 2 yrs and looked to be an excellent replacement for Portis one day and we lose him. Then people are talking about picking up another RB in the later rounds of the draft for the same reason. Go figure. Someone else to have to take 2 more yrs to learn his job before he hits the field.

The two above are both WR, but are tremendously talented compared to the talent that was at the position in last years draft. People here were talking about Micheal Crabtree last year.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

The two above are both WR, but are tremendously talented compared to the talent that was at the position in last years draft. People here were talking about Micheal Crabtree last year.

Then I would say we are screwed. Not cause I don't want an elite WR but cause we have basically a college coach trying to teach pros how to run routes. It has not worked in 5 yrs, we have had no production from our WR's in the last 5yrs, and anyone we picked up in the hopes they will make this team better appear to suck or can't get on the field due to lack of knowlege of the plays/routes. But lets not hold anyone accountable cause we can always pick up more next yr or draft another WR in hopes he will work out. The only reason Moss, ARE, and Thrash have worked out for us is cause they were trained prior to Hixon being here. Moss trained with the Jets, ARE trained with Pitt, and Thrash started here and got fine tuned in the WCO with the Eagles. No one else has produced. No one else has been developed since Hixon has gotten here. Everyone who had talent according to the team came, did ok or nothing at all, left and did better then here...ie; Coles, Patton, and Lloyd ring a bell. I'm afraid to ask where Mix went.

[WaldSkins]

Crabtree is a sure thing hands down. Not that we need another WR but he would definately be an upgrade over Thomas

[44ever]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Crabtree is a sure thing hands down. Not that we need another WR but he would definately be an upgrade over Thomas

this is a prime example of why some people question VC's logic. Not that I disagree.