I guess no one likes VC.

[WaldSkins]

Interesting article from the Rocky Mountain News .

Redskins' Cerrato wouldn't win Mr. Popularity : NFL : The Rocky Mountain News

[SBXVII]

Well let me ask you ....who on earth calls a presser then basically says nothing of imprtance? Vinnie. You call a presser if you have something of relevance to say. You don't call a presser to say "Nothing new folks. Just wanted to say the team will be evaluating the year." "Thanks and have a great break." WTF? Can you imagine the President doing that.....lol. It would seem like something out of Mad TV. LOL. .....

Pres: "Hi folks, just wanted to see how fast you could mobilize. We'll be evaluating
the yr." "Have a pleasant evening."

[44ever]

here we go again!

[BrunellMVP?]

Vc is to terrible as Syder is to rich.

[Schneed10]

I like him. I really don't get the vitriol towards him.

He's kind of a bozo personality-wise, but I couldn't care less about that. Bottom line was I liked his use of draft picks last year and I still like them today. WRs take a long time to develop in the NFL, you can't pass judgment on them until their 3rd NFL season. And he's right in saying that if they can't stay healthy then they can't produce. The key will be can they get and stay healthy, and then can they accelerate the learning curve. I have high hopes for Kelly, while Thomas I could see as a Devery Henderson deep-threat only type.

I loved the Rinehart pick and still do. Dockery didn't start for us his rookie year until he was forced into action by injuries to the guards. This time, the injuries happened to our tackles, and we had other depth (Heyer) to handle that. I still see Rinehart developing into a solid starter for us.

Tryon's a turd, but Moore is serviceable as a depth guy (and brings huge hits) and Horton is a starter for 10 years. It's absurd to hang Vinny because his draft class didn't deliver in year 1. You have to give him more time than that.

I think he's going to take the same approach in this year's draft: take the best player available regardless of position, and we'll end up with better and deeper talent. We just can't expect this incoming class to make an immediate impact - people have to realize that's the exception not the rule.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think he's going to take the same approach in this year's draft: take the best player available regardless of position, and we'll end up with better and deeper talent.

I understand how, in theory, taking the best available player ultimately makes for a better, deeper roster. Yet we are really hurting in the lines - the OL in particular.

I'd like to know how VC plans to fix that if targeting linemen in the draft isn't the plan. To me, that is his critical task for the off-season.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I like him. I really don't get the vitriol towards him.

He's kind of a bozo personality-wise, but I couldn't care less about that. Bottom line was I liked his use of draft picks last year and I still like them today. WRs take a long time to develop in the NFL, you can't pass judgment on them until their 3rd NFL season. And he's right in saying that if they can't stay healthy then they can't produce. The key will be can they get and stay healthy, and then can they accelerate the learning curve. I have high hopes for Kelly, while Thomas I could see as a Devery Henderson deep-threat only type.

I loved the Rinehart pick and still do. Dockery didn't start for us his rookie year until he was forced into action by injuries to the guards. This time, the injuries happened to our tackles, and we had other depth (Heyer) to handle that. I still see Rinehart developing into a solid starter for us.

Tryon's a turd, but Moore is serviceable as a depth guy (and brings huge hits) and Horton is a starter for 10 years. It's absurd to hang Vinny because his draft class didn't deliver in year 1. You have to give him more time than that.

I think he's going to take the same approach in this year's draft: take the best player available regardless of position, and we'll end up with better and deeper talent. We just can't expect this incoming class to make an immediate impact - people have to realize that's the exception not the rule.

I don't "know" Vinny Cerrato. So it's impossible for me to say whether I "like" him or not. I can only go by his results as the director of player personnel, executive vice president of football operations, or whichever title he has had in his tenure with this team.

66-78. That's the overall record of this team under Dan Snyder's ownership and Vinny Cerrato's guidance with personnel -- however you choose to describe his official status. We can all see what that record is. Yes, we have a couple of last place wild card appearances. But those were against incredible odds when all seemed lost or with the backdrop of immense tragedy. Both coincidentally, came under the leadership of Joe Gibbs, without whom those playoff spots may never have happened under any other coach.

Regardless, this organization has been mired in mediocrity or downright failure. And there's an alarmingly large number of fans who accept it, defend it, and fall for the promises of "next year".

And this year's draft? It's shaping up to be like all the rest. Our rookie wideouts have an ironclad defense other rookies don't seem to require -- they're rookies, so we have to give them time. Desean Jackson, Eddie Royal, Anquan Boldin, Randy Moss, Donnie Avery all prove that rule to be complete bullshit. That's an excuse that bad teams use. Yes, there are the occasional hits: Golston, Montgomery, Cartwright, Horton. But those types of players are taken with far more regularity among the teams that are successful. I don't see how anyone can "love" Chad Rinehart. You can love the idea of finally picking an offensive lineman, I suppose. But he hasn't played a single down. The best you can say about him is that his grade as a pro is incomplete.

It's not just this year's draft that's open to criticism. It's an entire body of work over the years that ignores the basic rules of building a franchise that all the good teams accept -- build your lines first. We haven't taken an offensive lineman in the first two rounds in eight years. There hasn't been a defensive lineman selected in the first four rounds in eleven years with Vinny and Snyder calling the shots. That's inexcusable. It defies the fundamentals of football.

If it's one thing Cerrato and Snyder are good at, it's luring legions of fans to tolerate mediocrity, and to trick them into believing that the Redskins are one step away from championship contention.

It's a trick that won't work with this fan.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I understand how, in theory, taking the best available player ultimately makes for a better, deeper roster. Yet we are really hurting in the lines - the OL in particular.

I'd like to know how VC plans to fix that if targeting linemen in the draft isn't the plan. To me, that is his critical task for the off-season.

That's another bullsh*t rule. If the best player available is a wideout when our first pick rolls around, are we going to take him?

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

That's another bullsh*t rule. If the best player available is a wideout when our first pick rolls around, are we going to take him?

If you are Vinnie C. you take three!

[Schneed10]

yeah but been aren't you assuming that you can fairly lay all those personnel failures at cerratos feet? I don't know how you can do that. Gibbs was in charge of personnel decisions under his title of team president. Cerratos had a role in scouting for sure, but what evidence do you have that it was cerratos and not Gibbs who chose not to address the lines? As for rinehart, why would he deserve to start over pete Kendall or randy Thomas as a rookie? Patience my son. Rinehart will have his day when Kendall is gone, whenever that may be. This is the first time anyone can definitively assign primary personnel responsibility to cerrato. If youre disappointed in player personnel, some of the blame has to lie with Gibbs and snyder, too. Its not fair to lay that on cerrato when he didnt hold decision making responsibility.

[Giantone]

As proven with other teams you must hold people responsable for their actions and in football the end result is win and loss's,as I said before I think Zorn will be ok what hurt the Skins was the GM's (joke)inability to supply the team with the players needed,aka....O line and D line players.

[Beemnseven]

Gibbs was never a personnel man, and if he had direct control and final say over draft picks, then fine, he deserves blame too. I tend to think that he deferred scouting, actual player research, and grading of prospects to other people -- Cerrato's division, for sure. It was Gibbs who ultimately looked at his team, his roster and made the final decision on the choices Cerrato presented to him.

I don't think it's a leap to say that during Gibbs' reign the second time around, that while he had complete control, it was Cerrato who held the role of player-personnel, and it was he who advised Gibbs on which players to select. Gibbs just had the yes or no angle.

In the end though, I believe the responsibility fell to Cerrato as to which groups of players Gibbs chose from.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

yeah but been aren't you assuming that you can fairly lay all those personnel failures at cerratos feet? I don't know how you can do that. Gibbs was in charge of personnel decisions under his title of team president. Cerratos had a role in scouting for sure, but what evidence do you have that it was cerratos and not Gibbs who chose not to address the lines? As for rinehart, why would he deserve to start over pete Kendall or randy Thomas as a rookie? Patience my son. Rinehart will have his day when Kendall is gone, whenever that may be. This is the first time anyone can definitively assign primary personnel responsibility to cerrato. If youre disappointed in player personnel, some of the blame has to lie with Gibbs and snyder, too. Its not fair to lay that on cerrato when he didnt hold decision making responsibility.

At one time in the past I definitely think Snyder was pulling the strings more often than not, and under Gibbs I think Vinny again took a backseat. Starting with last year's off-season Vinny is clearly running the show now, and I think it's only fair to judge him based on that going forward. I agree one year is not a proper evaluation of a draft class. Most people know this too but are too hell bent on taking swipes at Vinny at any cost.

[Schneed10]

maybe so, but isn't it conceivable that cerrato may have presented Gibbs with grades on numerous offensive linemen who graded out well, yet Gibbs instead chose to trade multiple picks for rocky McIntosh? My point is you just don't know. And forgive me, but it's fairly retarded to label the 2008 draft class as a failure after just one season. Ideally you'd like an immediate impact from your second rounders, but that's just not the norm. For every anquan boldin or desean Jackson there are way more roddy whites, torry holds, brandon marshalls, greg Jennings, and Calvin johnsons who takeore than one season to begin making an impact at wr.

[Schneed10]

and apologies for my typing, I'm on the itouch