How far can Beck take us?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.

Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck ASKED to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His request.

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.

I'm glad you posted this. Maybe now some of the boo birds can quiet their chirping a bit.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NLC1054

*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck ASKED to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His request.

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.

This exactly.

Also, just to add, Cameron knew that Beck had a better shot at playing here than in Baltimore, so rather than keep him buried on their depth chart they traded him.

So just to recap, regime change in Miami, numbers game in B-More.

[GMScud]

Sigh is right. At the end of the day we're arguing about a guy who won't beat out a Rex Grossman for a starting job.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.

Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.

Originally Posted by Lotus

I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.

How lucky are we that the already rattled confidence of Redskin Nations QB situation will have it's first test against the Steelers. Obviously the first game is to early to make an honest evaluation but prepare for the 911 switch boards to light up on Friday Night in the DC Metro area.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.

Both understandable, but regardless of the reasons, the fact that he was given away for next to nothing not once but twice doesn't really lend to the idea of him having much value for multiple teams, especially as a potential starter. If he wasn't viewed as anything more than a clipboard holder, he wouldnt have been passed off so easily.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

Bledsoe took an AVG Pats team to the SB and Simms has won a SB.. I think they were both really good NTM Romo is a solid player also

[skinsfaninok]

whoa

Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

whoa

Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk

Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

whoa

Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk

Maybe a case of revisionist history but Rick Smith (Texans GM) confirming Kyle liking Beck 4 years after the fact gives it some credibility. I don't know, it's one of those things where it's fun to fix up a sports car rather then break the bank for a new one before you can afford it.

Still I keep on talking to my Dad about this and he's like oh the Skins are going to be like 3-13 this year. And I asked him how is that so? Last year they went 6-10 with one of the worst QB's in the league (at least performance wise, seeing as how McNabb was McNabb in name only), the 31st ranked defense, and the 24th ranked rushing attack. They shored up the offensive and defensive lines, started building through the draft, and if anything they'll get better QB play out of Grossman then they got out of McNabb this year.

Better defense, better O-Line, deeper running back stable, improved QB play, easier overall schedule, and second year in both offensive and defensive systems all point towards the team imporving.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal.

seriously, talk about making stories out of non-stories, but that's what PFT does best.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

I'll might be willing to give you Bledsoe, but Phil Simms no. Dude's average QB rating is BELOW 80.

Also, looking at Bledsoe even further. His completion % sucked balls and has a career QB rating of 77. Sure he may have thrown many seasons with 20+ TDs, but he also had a ton of INTs to go along. That and he was a statue that took sacks instead of being able to avoid them.

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Maybe a case of revisionist history but Rick Smith (Texans GM) confirming Kyle liking Beck 4 years after the fact gives it some credibility. I don't know, it's one of those things where it's fun to fix up a sports car rather then break the bank for a new one before you can afford it.

Still I keep on talking to my Dad about this and he's like oh the Skins are going to be like 3-13 this year. And I asked him how is that so? Last year they went 6-10 with one of the worst QB's in the league (at least performance wise, seeing as how McNabb was McNabb in name only), the 31st ranked defense, and the 24th ranked rushing attack. They shored up the offensive and defensive lines, started building through the draft, and if anything they'll get better QB play out of Grossman then they got out of McNabb this year.

Better defense, better O-Line, deeper running back stable, improved QB play, easier overall schedule, and second year in both offensive and defensive systems all point towards the team imporving.

I'm starting to think it's becoming a defense mechanism. Trying to convince themselves it's going to be a horrible season, so if we have a good season they can be "pleasantly surprised" or if they have a bad season they can say "I told you so".

We didn't make some big move in the offseason that allowed people to say "SUPER BOWL, MAN!", so instead fans are saying we'll suck for doing exactly what they said they didn't want to do.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal.

It is pretty laughable.

However the notion of John Beck is pretty laughable, too.