The everything Gruden thread

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Answer this for me.. What has Gruden done to give you confidence that next year (and subsequent years) with a 1st round pick, cap money and a new defensive coordinator that he's the right guy?



It seems like many of the support for Gruden returning is based on:

-We don't want to 'send the wrong message' by firing a guy after one year.

-We don't want to hear 'same old Redskins' by firing a guy after one year.

-We don't want to start all over again by firing a guy after one year.

-We don't want to look stupid for firing a guy after one year.



But what the thread is light on is, we probably have the right guy in place based on XYZ and that's why he should return. Looking for reasons to support him.

Due to the complete shitshow he inherited the jury is still out. I have never once said Gruden is a great or even good coach. I simply think it is not fair to fire him for turning a 3-13 team into a 3-13 team without the benefit of the cap money, first round pick, and a real DC.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Due to the complete shitshow he inherited the jury is still out. I have never once said Gruden is a great or even good coach. I simply think it is not fair to fire him for turning a 3-13 team into a 3-13 team without the benefit of the cap money, first round pick, and a real DC.

So I'm not trying to be a dick here, I really am trying to understand... So you're saying because he didn't make a 3-13 team worse he deserves another chance? One minor correction, they had a good bit of cap money (Roberts, Hatcher, D-Jax, Lavauo, Orakpo, Sharpton, Jordan, Clark, Porter were all FA signings) but just did a horrendous job with it. Allen takes most of that weight but Gruden wasn't an innocent bystander to it all. I'm still trying to get why it's not fair to fire him based on what we've seen.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Due to the complete shitshow he inherited the jury is still out. I have never once said Gruden is a great or even good coach. I simply think it is not fair to fire him for turning a 3-13 team into a 3-13 team without the benefit of the cap money, first round pick, and a real DC.

What you described is the embodiment of piss poor decision making. That's not how you evaluate someone. You evaluate someone based on whether they are performing and excelling at their job. Looking at the Redskins it is my belief that they are remarkably worse than last year's team despite minor change in personal. With the addition of DJax the case could even be made that they are better than last year's team.

I think if you truly look at Gruden's body of work as the a head coach of the Redskins you will quickly realize this men is incompetent. Usually all the dirt comes out after somebody gets fire, for example, Zorn not practicing situational plays and I think we will be just as appalled when dirt comes out on Gruden.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Answer this for me.. What has Gruden done to give you confidence that next year (and subsequent years) with a 1st round pick, cap money and a new defensive coordinator that he's the right guy?

It seems like many of the support for Gruden returning is based on:
-We don't want to 'send the wrong message' by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to hear 'same old Redskins' by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to start all over again by firing a guy after one year.
-We don't want to look stupid for firing a guy after one year.

But what the thread is light on is, we probably have the right guy in place based on XYZ and that's why he should return. Looking for reasons to support him.

I have been looking for reasons to support him but I am under no delusions that the front office will change it's make-up or philosophy. I would rather get some competency in the FO and if they choose to clean house great.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

This team is more than a one year project......for anyone.
Dumping Gruden at this juncture would confirm the apparent incompetence of our front office, thus assuring we never have an opportunity to sign a decent coach....

Putting a new system in place and getting the right kind of people is always a multi-year project. The question is do you have have enough confidence to continue with Gruden? This is classic cost benefit and risk analysis, just be mindful of who your analysts are.

[mredskins]

Look at Houston. They have a new HC and have improved over last year with virtually the same players.plus their qb situation is arguably worst then ours.

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Look at Houston. They have a new HC and have improved over last year with virtually the same players.plus their qb situation is arguably worst then ours.

Same story in Detroit and Cleveland (pre-Manziel lol). Tampa still blows.

Gruden has more talent to work with this year than we had last year and more help all around. Special teams better this. Defense had some strong games this season and we have a legit passrush playmaker in Kerrigan now but defense overall is pretty close.

Gruden was coddled in Cincy folks! Elite defense backing him up with a ton of talent to work with on offense. Elite oline and best WR in pro football.

And most importantly he wasn't tasked to lead anything/anybody. Lewis' players run through walls for him and so do Zimmer's.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Same story in Detroit and Cleveland (pre-Manziel lol). Tampa still blows.



Gruden has more talent to work with this year than we had last year and more help all around. Special teams better this. Defense had some strong games this season and we have a legit passrush playmaker in Kerrigan now but defense overall is pretty close.



Gruden was coddled in Cincy folks! Elite defense backing him up with a ton of talent to work with on offense. Elite oline and best WR in pro football.



And most importantly he wasn't tasked to lead anything/anybody. Lewis' players run through walls for him and so do Zimmer's.

Only major difference is DJax, and had he been on this quarterbackless team last year it would not have mattered. We are missing DHall this year and it has hurt our D terribly.

Whats Cincys offense doing this year without him? A whole lotta mediocrity.
Thank you come again.

I get that you hate Gruden, but its as if the last time you watched them was 1991 and than just started again this year.

[CRedskinsRule]

I don't see how any qb situation is worse. Forget athletic talent injury alone has rotated 3 qbs in and out. No head coach is succeeding with this o-line. None period. You can't set deep, 3 steps get batted down, etc etc

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't see how any qb situation is worse. Forget athletic talent injury alone has rotated 3 qbs in and out. No head coach is succeeding with this o-line. None period. You can't set deep, 3 steps get batted down, etc etc

There are plenty of teams with bad lines. The Seahawks had 3 no namers step in last season and ball. Perhaps the problem isn't the line but the fact the Redskins:

a) don't know how to coach players up.
b) we don't now how to make adjustments and work around line issue.
c) we don't know how to draft or acquire capable linemen.

[Lotus]

I can't remember seeing a Skins team beat themselves so badly week in and week out. We actually have a top-12 offense and defense yet we consistently lose because we consistently do stupid things: miss simple coverages, miss simple blitz pickups, make pointless personal fouls, get kicked out of games, etc.

This undiscipline is on Gruden.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I can't remember seeing a Skins team beat themselves so badly week in and week out. We actually have a top-12 offense and defense yet we consistently lose because we consistently do stupid things: miss simple coverages, miss simple blitz pickups, make pointless personal fouls, get kicked out of games, etc.



This undiscipline is on Gruden.

You are kidding right? You cannot remember? Try last year.
I am not going to say Gruden is up for coach of the year or anything, but can we stop pretending we were on the verge of something great until Gruden came and ruined it all??

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by punch it in

You are kidding right? You cannot remember? Try last year.
I am not going to say Gruden is up for coach of the year or anything, but can we stop pretending we were on the verge of something great until Gruden came and ruined it all??

IMO Last year we were beaten more on the basis of talent, especially the talent of our depth. And sure, we still have some talent problems.

But this year IMO we have better talent but spend more time doing really stupid things. And we do these stupid things every single week. IMO we were stupid, but not as stupid, last year.

And even if we disagree on this, the essential point remains that we can't win until we stop being so stupid.

[Rotten1980]

Oh yeah lol Zimmer in Minn is another good rookie coach example.

[diehardskin2982]

I think Gruden needs to go. At some point this season Jay decided that it is more important to get RG3 out of here, then winning games or developing talent. All of the players have regressed, even D.Jax. Gruden has not instilled confidence. Instead he has worked to teardown his players. I get not wanting to hitch your wagon to a QB you don't like, but honestly he needs to work with the roster that he put together.

Bring Todd Bowles as HC